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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1991-12-19 ,1 " ..,' Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission 4 North Water Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02~Et I NG 1'1 I NUTES FOR DECEMBER 19. 1991 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Large Group Instruction Room of the Nantucket High Schobl. Commissioners present were William Willet, Laura Hussey, Henry Wasierski, Diane McColl, Daniel Kelliher, and Peter Wilson. Also, pr-esent were Bruce Perry, Administrator, and Lucia Wyeth, secre,tary. A. PUBLIC HEAR1NGS. 1. Richards - 25 E. Tristram Ave.,- SE48-609 (31-1) Mr. Willet asks far a motion to continue at the applicant's request, adding that we have requested they be at the next meeting or we are going to close the file. MOTION: To continue at the applicant's request 1S made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 2. Poor - Quidnet-SE48-635 (-20-49, 50.2, 50.3; 21- 58, 119) 3. Poor - Quidnet - S~48-637 (21-122, 118.1, 119.1,119.2) Mr. Perry says he was with Mr. Poor today and they discussed plans for the replication areas. Says he has mentioned filing for the ponds a number of times and is going to send a letter stating what we would like to have from him at the next meeting. MOTION: To continue at the applicant's request 1S made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 4. Dunham - Tristram Avenue - SE48-666 - <31-02) Present for' the app 1 i cant is Mr. David Ha i nes and Attorney Arthur Reade. Mr. Haines says they have a plan of the prop~rty next door which shews a wetlarid up along the road and the driveway but notes thel-e obsel-ved at the a n~ l:Jropos i ng a .f~(d I -3(-~ is a difference between it and what they site. ,~S c3 ~-€:'sult of the last meeting the): buildIng envelope using a 25' setback fl-om ~b/~~ I " , ~ Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 2 the edge of the punitive wetland. They have also ,(jjscussed the possibility of requesting waivers. Notes a small area of the septic system design does not meet the setback requirements; it meets requirements from the bordering vegetated wetl~nds. Q~tt dOE:?s infringe on the 100' buffer zone , ',' -', ":'" ~ ': ':1 to the punitive wetland. The primary trench encroaches into that area up to a cistance of 85' from the edge and the reserve area as designed would be 72'. Notes it is designed for a five bedroom system. Mr. Perry asks about a leach pit. Mr. Haines says, according to Mr. Hart, you have to have' 6~ below the bottdm9~ the p~t; right ~Q~ we h~v~ 7' fro~'the' lam1 su.~face to the w~ter table'$c we are gOing to have 'to mound up the trenches slightly. They have shown an envelope ~ ,- with a 50' setback from the bordering wetland, 35~ setback offth~road, and a 25' setback off the isolated wet area. As~,s ,h'pwto proceed ft-om here. If the commission considers theisglated wet area to be awetland~ they have to go to the Board~&f Heilth for a variance from the 100' setback. At the las~(Jl~eting it was indicated the commission would support our request for a variance. Mr. Reade says even if it is a wetland it doesn't have any very important feature in terms of protecting the Act and By-law. Obviously they don't want to be in the position where they have given up their right to contest the status of that depression as a wetl,and until they know how they are going to come out with rjgard to their request from the Board of H~alth. In other words, if the Board of Health were intranslgent about that, he thinks they would want to come back het-e and press further on that issue to try to persuade you ~h~t it's not a wetland. Mr. Willet says then you want to keep the hearing open until you get it straightened out with the Board of Health. Mr. Reade says that's exactly his suggestion. Mr. Wasierski asks what is the status of that road. Mr. Reade says it is a county layout not taken as a public way; it is probably a proprietor's road which means that presumably the owners of Trots Hill would own to the midline and the proprietors would have owned the other half and, when they made the set-offs that created that lot, that would have passed with it to the midline. Mr. Wasierski says he wonders if that would affect the setback; why couldn't they put the septic in the road. \" -, , \ . " ~"!/f"I.-C :'rL.F:.~f~-;;;:Z .. Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 3 Commissioners discuss the possibility and agree it would be up to the Board of H~~l'th. Mr. Reade says they have not yet filed with the Board of Health but will do so soon. Suggests w~ continue the hearing on a meeting to meetihg basis and says h~ b~lievesthey will be able to put together a request to the Board df Health for our review by the next meeting and asking for a letter supporting their request. MOTION: To continue for additional informatio~ lS made and seconded. 5. 'Arn~ld - 128 Wau!",inet Road S~48-680' - (1~-9) Present for the a.pplicant is Mr. David Haines, Jeff Blackwell and Mrs. Gale Arnold. Mrs. Arnold notes two letters have been sent from neighbors in favor of the project: from Curley and Arnold. Says she doesnft think the Curley and Winston houses should determine the height as the Curley house was part of a 50' right of way to the ocean and was not there until around 1975; the other house was a Coast Guard house. Notes that Dr. Dunwiddie in minutes of February 22, 1990, dealing with ,the Gillies house, stated that dune height is not a constant. Since she has had a washover it seems relevant that sand be allowed to go under the house. A statement by David Haines with regard to the Gillies application: the existing building currently blocks the pat~ of migration of the dune. Certainly you could say that about my house. Concludes by reading (instead of summarizing> the letter in favor of the project sent by Janet Arnold. Feels it is a fragile area and other people have been required to raise their houses and she thinks that two feet will allow it to fill up 6" so she would then have 1.5' and that is what she would really like. Mr. Willet asks what was the feeling of the commission when they visited the site. Ms. McColl says she did not notice any sand built up around the house and Mr. Wasierski agreed. Did not feel the dune was migrating. Mr. Haines says but you did see sand on the grass. Ms. McColl says yes, a dusting because the wind was blowing that day. Commissioners discuss how much to raise the house. I ~ Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 4 Mr. Perry says he spoke with the BuildinQ Q~partment and if an wolmanized carr'v stick is used the minimum is 8" above grad~J with the sa~, floor jpists it's 14" - J8". Feels where they are goi.119 to replace the floor joists, a 12" raising of the ho,,",se to the top of the first floor would allow the wind to blow under there and keep it dry. , , Mr. Haines says though there is just a dusting of 5~nd, if you dig down in the soil it's all mixed with sand, th~,~ has been an accumulation of sand which migrates across there. If you raise the house and have that depression, it wIll fill up with sand to the level of the adjacent ground. That's why he's sayir'9 6" beca!-"se if you l~ft the houseup~, i4:'~ in c3 little bit of' a' h.ole:ano ,that'h'ole wil'l fill up a:1d 'level.out and then the sand would migrate str'aight across :l;here. " Mr. Willet says the commission seems to be leaning towards the 18". Asks to close the hearing. Mr. Perry says he will poll the commissioners and also verify the inform-ation he re<;:eived from the Building Department. MOTION: To close the hearing and draft an order of conditions is made and seconded. Mrs. Arnold notes they had. requested 18" above the high point of the house. Mr. Blackwell says lS" above the 9.35 figure which is the center of the liyingroom. Mr. Kelliher says he made that suggestion. Mr. l.Jasierski notes the height of 18" does not preclude the fact that it could be excavated to make up the difference. UNANIMOUS 6. Ted Godfrey - 325 Polpis Ro.d - SE48-674 - (25-40) Present for the applicant is Attorney Arthur Reade; also present are Mr. and Mrs. Godfrey. Mr. Willet says this is a notice for a pond but we have other issues to clear up before we get to that so we will work on the Certificate of Compliance at the same time. After the dlScussion and vote on the Certificate, Mr. Willet asks for discussion on the pond. Notes we had several different dimensions. ~ Meet~ng Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 5 Mr. Perry notes the Certificate is going to b,e a partial certificate as the septic system hasn't been ins~aJled yet. They held out installing the septic system until they found out what's going to happen to the pond because they are going to use that as a means of access. Mr. Reade asks if the commission wants a flagging of the wetland boundary. Mr. Willet says yes as ~his is completely inadequate. Mr. Godfrey says so you want to see what the wetland deline~tion is b~fore you decide o~ the' actual placement of 'the pond. ' MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 7. Egan - 91 W Chester St - NOli - (41-93) Present for the applicant is Dean Lawrence and David Haines. Mr. Lawrence says they have made some modifications in the two wetlands the commission was concerned about. Mr. Haines says Mr. Lawrence met with Dr. Dunwiddie to go over some of his concerns and their plan has been modified greatly to leave some of the existing wetland and incorporate it into the design, using some indigenous vegetation to improve wildlife habitat and try to pick up on the value of the area in general. Mr. Lawrence says they propose to take the existing flagged wetland and to retain SOX of that wetland in an undisturbed state instead of making the whole area cranberry bog and totally altering the wetland. So now they have two types of wetlands. Reintroduced into the 100' buffer will be indigenous plant material and material that would be particularly attractive for habitat and food for wildlife. In the other area they dida similar thing: they had proposed dredging out the center for a duck pond and then revegetate the area around it. Now have shifted the pond to the other side where the slope is not as steep and retained the wetland and all the plant material between Pilgrim Road and the wet area. In the interface where they are regrading they propose to do some selective clearing of the honeYSUCkle and reintroduce some things like winterberry, tupelo trees, sweet fetn, rosa rugosa, ink berry and button bush. . . Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 6 ,Mr. Perry notes there are no undisturbed buffers around the w-etlands, prOposed. Mr. Lawrence s~ys what they did was move the road to the eas't 2":'-30' and then i nt,-oduced a berm between the road and the wetland which would be revegetated. That's what I'm calling a buffer is that introduced berm. Mr. Perry as~sabout the side slopes. Mr. Lawrence says in ~ddition to the cranberry they are sugga-sUng Winter Creeper- a$ a vine, to ~tabiliz.e the slope. Alsq they c..re . proposing, a ,preconstruction .siltatio'f.'l fen::e bar,-'ier in addit'lOr. to a post-tonstruction siltation fence at the base of the slope while they are establishing the grades s() that nothing will be disturbed in the wetland. That holds true for both wetlands. Mr. Perry asks if run-off from the road will be angled away from the bog. Mr. Lawrence sAys he crowned the road so all the water coming off the hill is collecting on the bther side of the road and leaching so just the water from the center would go to the bog.) Mr. Willet asks if that pretty much answers the concerns we had last time. .' '. Mr. Don Liptack from the Soil Conservation asks where the spoilswi}l be going when they dig out the hillside. Mr. Lawrence says the soils probably are about the same as where they dug the test pits. There is probably about a foot and a half of sandy loam under which is a 6" - 12" layer of a harder clay material and then sandy gravel under that. The hard pan would be used as the base for that road for that path over which would be a 2" layer of stonE dust and the excess cut material would betaken outside of the 100' area. Mr. Liptack also asks about a perimeter ditch so that when the bog is flooded the water is contained. Offers his assistance in setting up the hydrology for the bog. Says a perimeter dike would be very important asit is considered an organic cranberry bog and one of the traditional cultural practices is flooding. Mr. Perry suggests a cross section of the bog showing the finish contOurs so we can see what the ditch will look like. . Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 7 Disc~ssion on flood1ng the bog, should they decide that is a practice they want to do, and what they would need to intr'oduce. Mr. Willet suggests they provide us with some cross sect ions.. Mr. Haines asks if they are heading in the right direction with the commission. Mr. Willet says he thinks so. Mr. Perry says he would like to see the pond pushed out a little more and a littl17'more of. the natLr'31 wetland left. ' Mr. Lawrence says they are actually increasing the wetland area by moving the bog. MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 8. Beinecke Crooked Lane SE4S.....675 (41-203) 9. Anderson - Crooked Lane SE48-676 (41-203.1) 10. Beinecke Crooked Lane SE48-677 (41-203.2) Present for the applfcant is Mr. Lester Smith and Mr. Arthur Reade. Mr. Reade says although it has not become final yet as the decisions haven't been filed, they obtained the variances waiving the front yard setback on each of the three lots down f\-om 30 I to 15 I . Mr. Smith says they have been discussing the sewer connection with the sta~e and as of today they say it is imminent, all of the technical issues have been resolved. There are just a few minor procedural aspects they are wo\-king out. Mr. Reade reviews the history of ~he project and the problems with DEP relating to the sewer extension permit. Concludes they were denied an extension on their pr"evious order and were requested to attempt to move the structures away from the wetland to the extent possible to at least get closer to the present regs that had been adopted since the old order of conditions had been issued. The point is the owners have been held up over a long period of time and have come into the situation in good faith with the understanding . . Me.~~ngMinutes for December 19, 1991 Page 8 they were buyingw,i.th orders of conditions in place, expecting to build the project within three years, and then found they couldn't due to the problem of getting the state permits. Mr. Perry suggests a detail design on the two houses on the outside to more reflect what's there; perhaps a discussion on ridge heights or limiting the number of bedrooms or the size of the house as we would be issuing waivers on all three lots. Mr. Reade says we are trying to keep the building ~nvelopes as small as possible. Mr. Perry says he doesn!t s..::e, how the middle lot with 'a foUl- bedroom house aan do any~hing but have an impact on the wetland as there is only a 16' setback. Mr,. Wilson says he is troubled with that as well. Mr. Smith says these will all be at grade but they unfortunately don't have much room to work with. Notes they are taking the roof run-off into downspouts. Also are talking about a gravel driveway to keep it impervious. Mr. Reade says as the houses will be on the sewer system the number of bedrooms is not really pertinent. Mr. Perry disagrees, ,says the number of bedrooms implies a certain size structure~ Mr. Wilson says since waivers are required he would rather see no dwelling there at all., Mr. Reade says that's not a possibility for us. not acceptable. That's Mr. Wilson says if it's not, acceptable does it absolutely have to be a four bedroom house. Could it not be a 'Sconset style cottage tucked closer to the norther-n edge of the lot. Something that would get as far away from wetland as possible. It's 16 1/2 feet. Mr. Smith says ZBA has basically given the maximum. Mr. Perry says not necessarily. They asked why 15 feet was chosen and I explained usually the commission splits the difference. They were going on that comment but had said if the commission requires 10 they might change their view. Mr. Reade says the vote was four to one and they had an adverse recommendation from the Planning Board, one of whose ;,/\",'wi_;'1iii!'ft';~l:f,~/,_(,'iJ.~.~1:j,lM',!ti,iiIt,'~t!"i_<~?<";',,;,-;.::"', Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 9 member~,suggested i~ should be the wetland setback th4t should be bent, not the zoning setback. Ms. McColl says the wetland setback is being bent. Mr. Smith says if the-concern is the buffer we could put in a more dense shrub buffer of some sort to achieve a greater barrier from the dwelling and the wetland. Mr. Wilson asks what the side setback is. Mr. Reade says 10 feet. ,Mr. Wilso'nsays th~s is a ,ldrye, wide',house facing the '3treet. In rccognitio,,'of wetl~nd"scel1ic vieiAJ th".ls essentially eliminates a very beputiful view driving down Crooked Lane. I'm not in favor of the middle dwelling at all but if it was considerably smaller and was pushed as much to the north as possible... Mr. Smith says it currently is 21' off the lot line to the north. Ms. McColl asks if they would consider a-, smaller house in the middle lot. Mr. Smith says the 24,1 dimension we're talking abqut is a pretty narrow house to begin with. Mr. Wilson says to m~~e myself clear, I am talking about the width -- 24x 24 -~ many people live in houses that large. Suggests it could be made L shape--as much of visibility to the wetland as possible would be very nice. Mr. Reade says we can certainly play with a redesign. Mr. Wilson says there is no reason why we need to grant the center one at all, if the board chose. Mr. Reade says obviously you know what the result of that would be. Mr. Wilson says whatever result ends up here it's going to be here for a long time, whether it's a law suit or whether it's a house, and, if our imagination is used, probably more people will be satisfied in the long run. Mr. Reade says he agrees and he thinks we should certainly try to come up with something else over the next few weeks. We're not operating under the gun right now because our variance won't be final until all the appeal periods, which will be late January; so hopefully by the next Meeting, Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 10 meeting, which is three, weeks away, we can come up with some ideas to try to work with you as far as the middle lot is concerned. Mr. Wilson says and you have to examine the possibility o.f what the minimum four bedroom house 'sq~'..ire footage would be. Ms. McColl says three bedroom. Commissioner says or even small~r. Mr. Willet says take a look at how you can s~ale it down. .' : Ms: Cheryl Cr:'eighton of, th'e LCind Cclinci 1 says she hali subn'li tteo""ali ttar at the previous meeting regarding some of ttfe is';!il1SfO' surrounding this. This is an extraordinary case wM~re all three lots exceed the buffer. The one in the middle in particular is also exceeding the project activity 25' bu~fer, let alone the 50' structural setback, and this is ,.i'n e><'benSi,ve wetland area feeding into Hummock Pond. Is glad to know they are going to look at reducing the house size; believes that was really emphasized at the last meeting and awkedfor by the commissioners as well as in our letter and ithajn'toccurredin this plan. Thinks that needs to be looked at seriously at all of the sites, in particular the mid'dle,;lot, though she doesn't see how a dwelling can be allowed on that middle lot given the information from Mass. Audl.Jbon and even the State's non-point source pollution dG.culllentsregardi ng the i;mportance of buffer zones, in particular-against a borde,~ing vegetated wetland. They are one o~the most important as wildlife habitat, wetland scenic vi,ews~ water pollution, erosion control, etc., and it seems the applicants really need to give some more consideration to reducir'l<.;) this project proposal for the extensive waivers that are necessary. / MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 11 . Wetheri 11 45 Hulbert Ave SE48,....683 (29-16) 12. Constable 43 Hu I bel- t Ave SE48-684 (29-17) Mr. Willet says we are going to take Wetherill and Constable because they are back to back. Present for the applicant are Mr. John Shugrue, Mr. Arthur Reade; also present are Mr. Wetherill and Mr. Charlie Sali'Jyer. ~ ":t';.i!l'~>E:~'::1,I.___ Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 11 Mr.. Perry says the commissioners inspected the area On Monday and there wasn't any real consensus other than the fact that the bulkheads need to be replaced--- or something. Mr. Willet says to Mr. Shugrue, you're just suggesting pure ,. rep} acement for what was there. Mr. Shugrue says yes. Mr. Willet says there is some discussion among the commissioners on whether to allow replacement bulkheads in this a~ea or possibly go with building dunes. .Mr. Kell iher says .a northeast 'storm i-s g~ing to wash out the dunes as fast as it washed out the bulkheads. Mr. Wilson asks Mr. Perry if he got in touch with CZM. Mr. Perry says he wrote a letter last week requesting technical assistance and is trying to get a response as to when they will be coming down, hopefully before the January 9th meeting. In the letter he explained what the commission wanted to do and one of their jobs is to provide assistance. Mr~ Reade says Mr. Wetherill is deeply concerned to the point of coming here for the meeting. The Constables are related to the Wetherill's and he speaks for both families tonight. He feels it is extremely important for the protection of the existirig houses on his pl-operty as well as other houses that are existing in the area that the bulkhead be restored in the location and new condition where it was before the storm. Mr. Willet says he personally has no problem with replacing those existing bulkheads. There are several members, Dr. Dunwiddie for one, Mr. Wilson perhaps, who are thinking about the dune approach. Mr. Wilson says he wanted CZM's advice on the subject. Mr. Willet suggests it would be best to put these on hold if it is agreeable to the applicants until we get some input f,-om CZM. Mr. Wetherill says the Wetherill house was built in 1939 and the bulkhead shortly thereafter. The same bulkhead stood in that spot for all those years without even significant repair so it did pretty well. We feel that the risk to the house, whether you said we have to have a dune or some other system or no system, is extreme-- that we might lose the ent i roe house. We a I so th i nk there j s a risk i Ii de I ay as we r Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 12 could have another one of those northeaster's at some point so we don't want to make it a very protracted thingw Mr. Willet says he thinks by the time we meet next time we can come to a consensus. Mr. Wetherill says he wants to mention, from what he understands of the st~te regulations, the house and t~e old bulkh~ad should be grandfathered. Notes the two new houses near them which were built on pilings-- those sand dunes were very much in place this past summer and are very much gone now--absolutely flat. We respectfully request that you give us favorable consideration. Concludes by submitting. letter from M(. George Constable. Mr. Kelliher says the long range forecast for this winter is more frequent northeast storms. He hopes we don't have another storm before the next meeting. Mr. Wilson says he thinks we should talk to C2M first. Mr. Willet agrees; says we have to come to a consensus first on the whole bulkhead thing. Once we do that, as we know the plans are in place, it will go rather quickly. I would have hoped that by this time we would have heard from e2M; we will makesul7',e by next meeting lrJe do. Mr. Reade asks if we expect C2M to come down here. .Mr. Perry says yes, that is what he has requested. He can't expect them to provide assistance from Boston. Says he will notify Mr. Reade of the date. Mr. Wilson says his point in bringing it up was to hear their opinion of the best possible bulkhead, if it is to be a bulkhead, not to question Mr. Shugrue's skills at all, just thinks we need to know how the state stands on it. Mr. Wetherill says he understands what would be very problematical would be interspersed bulkheads and dunes. Mr~ .Sawyer says his family has had property on Hulbert Avenue for as long as Mr. Wetherill's family has. He sees Mr. Wetherill's issue as being very significant for the entire street and he s4Pportseverything he says. Ever since the west jetty was put in 100 years ago it has really changed the equation down there. Thinks the whole system of bulkheads and groins that is there now, all the way to Brant Point, has been very successful in stabilizing that shore and protecting the land and the houses. He doesn't see any negative side to it; therefore, he thinks to take some other , . .<li... ,">ilIl~,cI<l ~ 'f~_~7'::re1tl'i~~:fi;~_":i>-,T ' Me~ti~g Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 13 radical approach would be an extraord,tnary thing to do. To toss away a concept that is well~~Gven by time. M!fl'. Willet says in addition to Wetherill and Constable we also have Sager, Sawyer, Cross and Davis. Mr. Perry says Davis is a different situation. Mr. Willet says the others can all be continued as well. Mr. Perry says we need to open Sager, Sawyer ~nd Cross. MOTIO!'l:. To continuE' for additional informatibn is "iade 'and, sel.:ond . UNANIMOUS * 13. Sager - 33 Hulbert Ave - (29-21) Mrs. Hussey. abstains from discussion and the vote. Present for the applicant is Mr. Glen Wills. Mr. Wills says if we do have CZM come down here 'and whatever direction they go, do you think we could close and issue the same night in order to speed up the process. Mr. Willet says-he thinks we can work it out and work towards that end. Thinks we can get it squared away by the next meeting. 's Mr. Forns asks if the commission could declare an emergency that allows people to take the activity and move ahead with the replacement order because the structure will be threatened. Mr. Willet says he is reluctant to get into that at the moment. Mr. Forns continues if you deal with the structure, which would be the surface bulkhead, would you also be dealing with the perpen8icular groins at the same time. Mr. Willet says he would assume so. Mr. Forns suggests the commissioners might want to get in touch with the other towns who have dealt with the same problem. They have exercised emergencies in Chatham and Falmouth; where they knew philosophically they were going to go in a certain direction, they allowed the process to be expedited quickly. Meetinq Minutes'for December 19, 1991 Page 14 Mr. Willet say~he thinks we will try and expedite i~, once we determine what that course is going to be. Mr. Wills says he would hope he could get a go-ahead on the ninth. MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. Yes - 4 No - 1 (Kelliher) Mr. Kelliher objects to the del.aying the vote. Mr.W~II~~ says he not.s the objectfon but feRls we ~eed additional information from CZM. Mr. Reade notes we don't have file numbers yet. Mr. Kelliher says you don't need a file number in Chatham. * 14. Sawyer - 37 Hulbert Ave - (29-20) MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. Yes - 4 No ..., 1 <Kelliher) { Mr. Kelliher objects to the delaying the vote. Mr. Willet says he notes the objection but feels we need additional information from CZM. Mr. Reade notes we don't have file numbers yet. Mr. Kelliher says you don't need a file number in Chatham. * 15. Cross - 39 & 41 Hulbert Ave - (29-18 & 19) MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. Yes - 4 No - 1 (Ke 11 i her) Mr. Kelliher objects to the delaying the vote. Mr. Willet says he notes the objection but feels we need additional information from CZM. }:~, Meeting;Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 15 Mr. Reade notes ,we don't have file numbers yet. Mr. Kelliher says you don't need a file number in Chatham. * 16. Davis 51 Hulbert Ave - S~48-682 - (29-13) Present for the applicant is Mr. Jeff Blackwell and Mr. Michael O'Mara. Mr. Blackwell says the Davis' bought the property the end of A~gust and,the storm did structural dama~e shortly after. Some, of the' oVEirwashfr'om aver the bu I khead ac tua 11 y toc,k some 'of the SUppul-t pIers Qut cind Mr. 'Davis has decided that instead of trying to juryrig the house they propose to demolish the building and rebuild it in basically the same place and almost the same configuration. Notes the bulkhead isin pretty g60d shape. Presents an architect's drawing of what is there now, what is prop6sed to be added and what is proposed to be eliminated from the existing structure. The only thing that would be considered new within the 50' setback from the bulkhead is the chimney. Mr. Kelliher asks about groundcover. Mr. Blackwell says the size of the lot is over 10,000 sq. ft. and they are allowed 50% groundcover. This is well under the allowed. Mr. Wilson asks what sort o~ foundation it will have and if it will be higher than wh~t it is now. Mr. Blackwell says pilings and the finish first floor elevation is 10'; it.s only required to be 8'. Right no~"" it's above 11'. Mr. Perry as~s if they are going to use break-away walls. Mr. Blackwell says yes but the fine points haven't been worked out as yet. Mr. Wasierski asks if ridge height is going to be the same. Mr. O'Mara says it's within 6" of what's there now; about 5 1/2 "higher. The fil-st floor ceiling is 7'. Mr. Perry notes they are dropping the first floor down a foot and then qoing up 5" highel- from the existing. . Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 16 M~~, Perry continues we will need a plan showing either the top of the pilings or the top of the floor. Adds it can be submitted after the order but we need a letter certifying the elevation is going to be a certain number so it can be in the order. Mr. Blackwell says we'll give you elevation 10 as the first floor elevation. And we'll give you an engineered'copy of the piling plan. Mr. Perry says then we can close and issue the next meeting. MOTION,: 'to cOntinue the 'hearing 'for. additional info~mation is'made and .econdeu. UNANIMOUS * 17. Wiley - 39 Baxter Road SE48-685 - (49-10 & 49.2.3-4) Mr. Perry says he first inspected this in October and has been waiting for a file number. Mr. Willet reads the inspection report. Mr. Wiley presents the plans and the commissioners review. Mr. Perry notes there are a number of sitting areas. 't Mr. Willet asks Mr.. Wiley if he has any objection to cutting it down to one sitting area and scaling it down a little. Mr. Wiley says he can scale it down. Would like to keep the largest sitting area. Adds his client likes the zigzag effect which makes it a little more user friendly. Adds Mr. Perry has suggested bringing it down a natural swale and he will propose it to the client. Thinks it will limit the views from down the beach. Mr. Wilson suggests if the runners were a little longer and the steps. little wider you might be able to hug the ground a little closer. Ml'-. Wiley says that is a good point. keep them comFortable in the 7 to 8 l-ise. keep it down as much as possible. He would like to He would want to Mr. Willet suggests he try repo~itioning it and cutting it down to one sitting area. ...J Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 17 MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS * 18. Old North Wharf (42.3.1-225) - SE48-686- utility lines * 19. Old North Wharf (42.3.1-225) SE48-6a7 - cottages Present for the applicant is Attorney Melissa Philbrick; also present is Mr. Alfred Sanford. Mr. Perry says there are two notices and, he d~esn't see any raason why we cap'~ take them toge~her~Ohe is to rep 1 ace the four co t tage-'3 ar-;d thewa I kwaysto them and' the other is to do the catwalk from the one cottage out to the pierhead that remains where the pier expansion has been proposed. Mr. Sanford says he thinks the application is pretty straightforward. They are applying to rebuild the cottages and walkway that existed on the 30th of October. They are trying to rebuild the houses the same way as they were before. Changes show a simplified foundation structure-- there are fewer pilings in the water then there used to be. The overall size and position of the piling fields are the same. The deck elevations are slightly higher per the building code. Mr. Willet says at this point you are just looking for our feelings in this regard; obviously there is a fair amount of detail that isn't here. Mr. Sanford says he doesn't know what kind of detail you might want. The piling plans are there for all the cottages with the carrying beams. Also attached is the existing permits for this; these are all licensed structures. Mr. Perry says one comment was where the buildings are entirely gone whether it is covered by the existing license that was issued in 1930 or '32. Mrs. Philbrick has talked with Mr. Jeff Martin and they haven't seen anything specific that it is. They have requested a number of waivers required to replace these buildings. The commission needs to decide if they want to issue the waivers, one reason is if it is important enough to the scenic view of the area. That seems to be a large part of the discussion in the old file. The cottages as they exist were very important to people coming to Nantucket. Now they arB going to be built up to modern standacds. Ms. McColl asks if they will look basically the same. ..:~"'" Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 18 Mr. Sanford says we will make them as close as we can. The only changes will be what the building code forces us to do such as elevations, ceiling hei~hts and stairways. They will try to get variances. ~ Mr. Perry asks if the sewer line remains full or is it gravity down to the main pier. Mr. Sanford says the sewer line to the houses is a gt-avi ty line. Mr. Perry'asks if it will be double cased. Mr,,' Sanford sa'ys they have never' had any~ trO:.Jble wi th it before.'!iHe's not aware of any regulations requiring it.. It is only u~ed,in the summer; because of freezing problems it has to be turned off. Ms. McColl says she doesn't know of any regulations but notes this is' a unique case. Mr. Perry says the last notice discussed whether or not the site was considered on a rocky, tidal shore; it would make a difference in the waivers. Adds he thinks it is. Mr. Sanford says he thinks the issue is in the definition whether the rocky shore is naturally made and notes this is the ruins of the old wharf. { Mr. Wilson asks if we want information on the sewer casing. Mr. Kelliher asks if the sewer line will have to be replaced. Mr. Sanford says yes. Mr. Kelliher says in that case a double casing will have to be brought up at that time. Ms. McColl says he will have to talk to Mr. Willett about sewer permits if the sewer line has to be replaceQ so that will be taken care of at that time. MOTION: To close beth the hearings and draft an order is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS * 20. GreenhIll - 16 Hoicks Hollow Rd - (23-1) , Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 19 Present for the applicant is Attorney Melissa Philbrick who presents the architect's plans. Says they would like to move the existing house which is in close proximity to the top of the bank and move it outside of 100' from the top of the bank. Then construct a new residence, all points of which would be more than SO' from the top cf the bank. The new plan is based on work that was done to locate the top of the bank after the October 30 storm so that you had some up- to-date shore line information. As a result they have pulled the envelope back slightly. They would like it approved based on the building envelope beca~se the plans areln a very early stage and will no doubt go through a number of revisions. Th~y wanted you to ,see'what thegener~l scheme wa5, didn't 'W8~t you io be su~p~is~d by'it. Mr. Willet says so' essentially you're taking one building out of our jurisdiction and adding another 50' back. Ms. Philbrick says we have an outstanding order to add on to this house. Afte~ the last storm~hey decided they did not want to devote time and energy to that project and we would not use that permit but move the house and build a new house. Mr. Perry notes the house is going out to the point of the property land the commission may want to consider ridge heights in case the building doesn't end up as originally drawn. Attorney Philbrick ~ays what they have requested on the notice is that the ridge height would not exceed 2S'. Adds because it is this type 61" house they need to go to 2S' on the ridge. Ml-. Perry says he wQuldexpect substantial changes required by the HDC. Notes at this point there is only one section that's tall with a lot of wings but he wouldn't want to see the wings start climbing. Mr. Wilson suggests limiting 2S' to a certain percentage of the footprint. Mr. Willet says he thinks we should monitor to a certain degree. Attorney Philbrick says she is trying to avoid the back and forth they have in the past ended up doing between the HDC and here. Suggests she will talk to the architect to get his input. Mr. Wilson says this is basically a one story house with a story and a half in the center, so if they continue in this line it should be fine. I Meeting Minutes for December 19,1991 Page 20 Mr. Perry shows the Commission the calculations for the annual erosion rate for the area in order for thec,proiect to meet the local regulations. MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS B. REGULAR MEETING 1. REQUEST FOR DETERMINATION a. Kee'nan -, 11 . Full 1:019' i1i 11. R.d (27-24), Mr. Perry says we continued for a vote today for a positive determination to file a notice. MOTION: To issue a positive determination is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS * b. Varallo - 16 Gcilen Ave. (29-118) Mr. Willet abstains from the discussion and the vote. Mr. Perry says this is for a property at Brant Point. If it is determined it is more than fifty percent destroyed they have to bring it up to c&de. This also abuts the property on which a filing was done lClst yeClr for a. boathouse. They aren't proposing any expansion 01- fill lines; he feels it is in the buffer zone but will not alter as the fill doesn't go past the hedge which separates the house from the wetland on the other side. Mr. Wasierski suggests we also include a siltation fence as well is required. MOTION~ To issue a negative determination as being in the buffer zone but will not alter, with the condition that none of the dirt goes past the lawn and that a siltation fence be added. UNANIMOUS * c. Emack - 57 Pocorr~ Rd - (15-16) ) Present for the applicant is Mr. Robert Emack and Attorney Arthur Reade. Mr. Perry says this lS for stairs to the beach. ~ A'i;~',t_':,*,~j':liti~'1!' Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 21 Mr. Willet says generally we require a notice for stairs. Mr. Perry says he had asked at the field inspection how it could be in the resource area and not alter. Mr. Emack says the idea behind filing the request was in the recent storm th~ir existing stairs were damaged enough so that you can't use them any more. Rather then replace them in ~he same location the Shapiro's want to replace them closer between the two dW21lings. M~. Willet says he would like to see a notice. Mr. ,Ree.c,'e says "they have no pl-oblem with fili'ng a 'no_tic'? Mr. Perry says his only comment was that when they come in with a notice they add a boardwalk because it is well vegetated with thorny vegetation and it isn't a very comfortable walk. Notes the existing stairs are used by a number of the abutters and he thinks that use will no longer be allowed. Mr. Wasierski asks why couldn't this be included in the notice for the house. Mr. Perry says they could have but this is now a separate pro j ec t . MOTION: To issu~ a positive determination as a notice is required is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS * d. Emack 127 Eel Point Rd - (33~14) Mr. Perry says theuriginal notice allowed the house to be put on pilings. Now they want to enclose a little section of the power structure. Mr. Willet asks what is his recommendation. Mr. Perry says it's actually a toss-up. They are planning to keep it elevated like the existing house but it's certainly within the buffer zone of the dune. Mr. Wasierski notes it's entirely within the footprint of the housp. Asks if the dune is stable. Mr. Perry says it hasn't gotten any worse in the last ten years; underneath the house seems to be pretty secured out. Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 Page 22 MOTION: To issue a negative determination as being. in the buffer zone but will not alter is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS,':, * e. Perkins - 31 Almanac Pond Rd. - (46-2) f' Present for the applicant is Attorney Arthur Reade and Mr. Jeff Blackwell. Mr. Reade say.,; they are conderned with a proposed addition. and the existin~drive~aYMhich is on regist~red 'land of 'a71 a'tlutte~ for which' this pr'()pe~:-ty has no easement. It would: have to tie reconstru~t~d within th~ buffe~ zone. Mr. Perry saY5 what isn't shown an the plan is the elevation change from the pond, it climbs up about 15 feet. Notes the addition will be behind the existing house. The suggestion he made to Mr. Blackwell in the field was that when they build the new house they move the transformer out of ,the wetland and put it beside th~ d~iveway. Mr. Reade says that makes good sense. Mr. Perry says he does not feel ~ not~ce is necessa~y. MOTION: To issue a negative determination is made and seconded. '.;,. UNANIMOUS 2. ORDER OF CONDITIONS (full text of Orders in the files) a. Tristram's Homeowners - Long Pond -SE48-443 - (30-90) Mr. Perry says he spoke with various applicants and agents after they got thei r draft order. He had two pr'ob lems with the draft. #18 talks about the number of windows they are going to cut through the cattails and they had shown 6, three had existing piers and there were three on Long Pond Drive didn't~ After talking with them they agreed to limit it to the three existing access points and piers which are #1, 2 & 3 on the plan. Also, they wanted to start the work on September 1 instead of October 1 and he would rather see October 1 because it is a less busy time for the pond. Commissioners agree to go with October 1. MOTION: To issue the order with suggested changes IS made and seconded. Meeting Minutes for December. 19, 1991 Page 23 UNANIMOUS ADDITIONAL SPECIAL CONDITIONS Tristram's Long Pond Homeowners Association Arlene Paquette, Pre~idEnt DEP FILE NUMBER SE48 - 597 ASSESSOR'S MAP 59 and 60 Long Pond at l'1assasoitBridge Area UNDER THE MASSACHUSETTS WETLANDS PROTECTION ACT ( MGL CHAPTER 131, SECTION 40 ) AND THE WETLANDS BYLAW OF THE TOWN OF NANTUCKET ( CHAP,TER '1,36 ) ### b. McMaster - 26 Western Avenue - SE48-679 - (87-77) Present for the applicant is Mr. David McMaster and Mr. Robert Emack. Mr. Perry says \"Ie have a mu~tiple choice draft order of conditions for McMaster. Mr. Willet says how many of the commissioners are for an approval of., the pro,jec t. For :KeU iher ,Wi lson, Hussey Against: Wasierski, tMcColl Mr. Emack comments on Condition #17 to add the word 'approximately' for 17 feet. As a surveyor they l~ke to work with somewhat of a safety net, a couple of inches anyway. Mr. Willet suggests a couple inches plus or minus. Mr. Emack comments on #14. The plan had indicated 34' and the order says 35'. Attorney Reade says he represents the abutters and he is not going to repeat comments made at the previous meetings but says this order will put the existing septic system into use and, for the same reasons you denied Leet, his clients feel this also should be denied. MOTION: To issue the orde~ of conditions approving the project with changes as requested is made and seconded. Yes: Kelliher, Hu~sey, Wilson NO: Wasierski, McColl r Mee~ing Minutes f~~ December 19, 1991 Page 24 ADDITIONAL SPEOIAU,QOND,ITIQNS McMaste'r,ReaJ. tv' ;,"Trus~! . Agf"eement c/o Douglas O"Conne}.l~&,Br...e.Ch"dwick, Trustees DEP FI.I.:ENUt1BERtSEf:tQ- 679 ASSESSOR" S MAP ...97, .PARCEL 77 2bwe~tern Av.nue UNDER \ THE MASSACHUse~TS WE~~~; PROTECTION ACT ( MGL CHAPTER 131, SECTION 40 ) AND THE WETLANDS BYLAW OF THE TOWN OF NANTUCKET ( CHAPTER 136 .,) ### c. Old North Wharf - SE48~681 (4"2.3; 1-225) Present for th~ applicant is Mr. Alfred Sanford. Mr. Perry says the only comment he has received is the end date of #15 of April 1. They would like to extend it to June 1 on the recommendation of the Town Biologist. Adds he thinks we should stop before Memorial Day--from a recreational standpoint May 15 might be a better date. Commissioners discuss and agree to specify May 20. MOTION: To issue the order with the noted date change is made and seconded. UNAN I MOUS' ADDITIONAL SPECIAL CONDITIONS Old North Wharf Trust DEP FILE NUMBER SE48 - bBl ASSESSOR'S MAP 42.3.1, PARCEL 225 Old North Wharf UNDER THE MASSACHUSETTS WETLANDS PROTECTION ACT ( MGL CHAPTER 131, SECTION 40 ) AND THE WETLANDS BYLAW OF THE TOWN OF NANTUCKET ( CHAPTER 136 ) ### 3. CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE a. Godfrey - 325 Polpis Road - SE48-415 - (25-40) Present for the applicant is Attorney Arthur Reade; also present ar~ Mr. and Mrs. Godfrey. Mr. Willet says this is a notice for a pond b~t we have other issues to clear up before we get to that so we will work un the Certificate of Compliance at the same time. . Meeting Minutes for Dec. 19, 1991 page 25 Mr. Godfrey says he has,a proposal in addition to the plantings for a deck modification to remove a portion of the deck beginning at the corner and removing all the sonar tubes and decking and pti~ting the railing back u~ on the other side. It takes 8'4" back from the corner on this side and 5' 8" back fOl-m the other corner. Mr. Reade says that gives a setback of about 35' where it was about 26' before. Mr. Godfrey says all the plantings would remain as drawn; notes he previously provided a list of plants proposed. '~rs~ Godfrey say~ what we're, offering is the deck . modificatiQ~ andt~eplanting$ because you had s~id you. wanted two of the three suggestions that we made. Mr. Reade says the deck is cut back to the minimum for it to work effectively for the entrance on that side; have about 3' from the closest point. Mr. Willet says he thinks the wetland delineation originally was fairly loose; he's happy with this. Mr. Kelliher says he's happy with it; Mr. Wilson agrees as does Ms. McColl. Mr. Perry says so you're not going to require a restriction on the rest of the property against using the { garage as a dwelling. Mr. Wi llet says he's will iog 'to let it go. Mr. Kell iher says they had said at somepo~nt in time one of their parent's might need to liVe there. Mrs. Godfrey says we'd have to come before the board at that point anyway and you could refuse us at that point. Mr. Reade suggests adding something in the certificate that expressly calls out the fact that any further alteration or change in use would require the filing of a new Notice of Intent just to make sure nothing else would be done without coming to the commission. Mr. Willet asks for a vote on the Certificate with the stipulations that Mr. Reade just mentioned. MOTION: To issue the Certificate of Compliance is made and seconded. YES: NO: Kelliher, McColl, Wilson, Hussey Wasier-ski Meeting Mitiu~es for December 19, 1991 page 26 Mr. Perry notes the Certificate is going to be a partial certificate as the septic system hasn't been installed yet. They held out installing the septic syste4lri UTlttl they f.ound out what's going to happen to the pond because they are going to use that as a means of access. Mr. Reade asks if the commission wants a flagging of the wetland bouhdary Mr. Willet says yes as this is completely inadequate. Mr. Godfrey says SO:'ou want to: see what' the w~tland 'del in.eation i'5 b\=forE\'{ctu dec'ide on the ac.tua'l p1a~ement at' the pond. b . Ha 11 44 Tennessee..Ave SE48-393 (59.4-193) MOTION: To continue is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 4. PLANNING BOARD REFERRAL a. Somerset Farm Subdivision Mr. Perry says this is Ralph Marble's property. There isn't any wetlands but he would like to say in the Commission's response th~t half the property is in the Endangered Species area .;fnd the Planning Board may want to consider clusterin~ the subdivision to keep all the development outside that area. They have the ability to do that now. MOTION: To send the Planning Board a letter with suggested recommendatiCln is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS b. Duckland - off Gardner Road Mr. Perry says this is Al Silver's property. They have made some changes of property lines. The pond is now in one big lot and they have put in a drainage r~tention basin for the entire road next to the pond. In the previous letter we had said lot 6 & 7 were subject. Now only Lot 7is subject plus the drainage system and the siltation areas. Commissioners agree. MOTION: To make a recommendation as agreed is made and secc:'ded. I Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 27 UNANIMOUS 5. OTHER BUSINESS a. Anapol - Pennsylvania Ave. - SE48-192 - (60.3.1-17) Present for the applicant are Attorney Edward Wall and Mr. Joe Forns; also present is Mr. Anapol. Mr. Perry says we received plans today from Mr. Forns. Mr. Forns says we came,before you ~ctually tWQ meetings ugo and indicated ~e.i,wou.ld 'put togeth~r a plan that was, . cDnsi3tentwith th~ "initial Ord~~ of Cond1tions, Certificate of Compliance and generally be consistent with the regula'tions regarding the resource areas and managing the site. Essentially it came down to a ~uestion of access issues. We went through and met with the various agencies in the town as well as looking at the regulations, and we feel we are in a position that we are trying to meet both the spirit as well as the letter of the regulations dealing with all of the issues: fire and emergency access to the site, maintenance rights of the approved subdivision by the town ~or the roadways that are of record and the fact the town for a period of time has not maintained any of those roadways but allowed the dynamics of the .ystem to just take over, as well as incorporate the existing structure and the previous structures and the site sonditions and the basic, overall structure and function o~ the site and come up with a management plan that would address that issue. We used as the basis of this the formal records that existed and went back and as best as we could used the historical information for the site. As I indicated to you when I was here last we would come back with an incremental development plan that would address these dynamic forces which would then allow us to redirect the natural processes and train sand and keep as much sand on the property without going away. It is my understanding that abutters are concerned that if there was an access through, that material would end up tunneling and blowing through, causing a problem to their properties and that would give them aggravation which they didn't have. So we've set up our plan. Notes page 7 describes how they will go about this. They have now gotten the snow fencing and materials that will be used to set up the first phase, which will be to try to entrain the material that will be on the west/southwest side, and set up a double wall in a z-type pattern to entrain airborne sand drift, building up that pattern so it would hold material and prevent any scouring. At the same time the access to the site would be a switch-back pattet"" r-ather than a straight Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 28 through system and it is quite effective. That first switch- back patternwFll be an ,access to the site foreme,rgency work; it wouldn't be a formal Vehicular driveway or. anything like that. As time progresses and, looking at ttle schedule, would be in the March/April,timeframe, we would finish some of the grading with material on th~ site and at the same time begin .~ vegetative planting schedule. Beach grass would be planted per the site plan and the layout, while root structures were still dormant. This will entrain low level, up to 18", and stabilize. As we move along we'll go back in to that area. This ~ill be follohed through and the last phase will be the amount of additional sand fill (approx 200 yards) that will be required. Then they will put in the acc~s~ road which is abbut 125' and a nominal 8' width. That would b~ following th~initi~l pathway access and would ha~e the switchback pattern. Mr. Willet says that would be the last thing you would pu tin. Ms. McColl says you are already planning to open that up next month. What's to stop it from filling in and destroying the neighborhood between January and June. Mr. Fornssays one of the things, it's not going to be a roadway width; its going to bean access. Secondly, any materials that are on this sit~, if the transport goes to the east and pushes away, would be relocatedbackQ~to the site as the order of conditiol1s states. "Relocation is an acceptable means of replJnishment." So at the applicant's expense that would be relocat~d. He doesn't see a problem for instance in an abutter saying there's sand on my property because that would be moved back again. This has been done conventionally elsewhere. When that is completed since we'll have benchmarks and elevations, the management of that would be carried out in an orderly fashion over the years. If it turned out that you had redirection or a major storm event and there is a significant amount of sand, we would do the same, relocate the material and provide the restoration. An abutter wouldn't be on the hook to get the sand away from his place if it came from someplace else. Looking at the historical aerial photography and documentation and the records, that's about as close as I can come to a management plan that satisfies everybody's needs and at the same time I think we can create a more stable environment there with this combination of activities. Ms. McColl says what is going to stabilize the access road while the work is being done between January to June when you are going to be cu~ting the dune to get in there. Right now the dune is built back up. You're going to be cutting it to get in. Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 29 Mr. Forns says there wi II be conti nued work o,n the si te and grading ~nd fOllow-up between when the snow fencing is done by March. Ms. McColl'sa~s Mr. Erichsen already has a foot and a half of sand in his driveway which has come from this. What's going to keep this from continuing to build up. Mr. Forns says we can t~ke that sand out and bring it back to where it was "before" -~ and put it where there. was scouring. He thinks that creating a ~witchback pattern will stabi,lize"., If ,it turns out that we have a problem we ~an put somez~,gza:g fe'1cing in as' a hold.', Notes we"re only talking about~the area~.that are pr~sently unveg?tated. Discussion resumes about whether or not the project to maintain the driveway was abandoned and the differences of opinion with regard to the historic feature changes over the years since 1975. Also whether the dune is a dune, a vegetated dune, a shifting dune or a dynamic dune as it 'applies to the right of access--vehicular or foot or emergency. Mr. Woll says he thinks we are getting off the track because if you look ~t the aerial photos you see a definite access from Pennsylvania and Rhode Island Avel1ue. With all due respect to your personal knowledge, there has been vehicular access. { Ms. McColl disagrees in the summer of 1990 there was only a footpath to this house and the neighboring house. Mr. Woll continues, if a winter comes or a storm comes and fills an access what you're saying is the landowner has no right to remove the sand to maintain that access. The order of conditions permits this landowner to move sand around on his property to maintain access. The landowner also has a right to have all of the sand moved from Pennsylvania and Rhode Island Avenue from the road that is shown on a registered apprbvedsubdivision of that location to maintain access to his property. The landowner is not asking this board to do that. I'm not sure the lanpowner has to ask th i s board to t-emove sand from a reg is tered p I an of a subdivision approved by this town. But we aren't asking that. What we are looking to do is to maintain an access that existed since this person has owned this property that filled in or was scoured out from time to time and this board cannot, I believe, take the position that if sand fills in that access then that landowner cannot maintain that access whether it's been filled for a year or two years. There is no doctr-ine of abandonment of that access on an ordel- of :;;. f:';lI(-4it'i-:. F~)'~t~-~-",~,.", .I_ ~eeting MiAutes fQr December 19. 1991 page 30 conditions and on an order of conditions with a certificate of compliance that was issued ~arlier .this year saying this 1~11downer has satisfied a.ll thos&.c:onditions. Thi.s lapdowner has.a right to mainta:in that ac:;:(;es~ as it e)(isted_,~... the time the order of conditions was issued and this board cannot take away that right and 1 beg to differ with you there is no dune in that access. There's vegetation on either side but there is no dune where that is. There ~aybe windblown sand but the vegetation is on either side where it's always been. Mr. Perry says you mean you're saying a dune is not comprised of shifting sands? Mr. Wi'llet ?ryS 1 believe 'that is'wnat ,he"s sayjnlJ~ Mr. Woll says let me ask you tfds. If you go down Rhode Island Avenue do you say there's a dune in the neighbor's property because there is a foot and a half of sand? Mr. Perry says that's where the. dune is heading, yes. That's the toe of the dune. Mr. Woll says is that a dune, though. My question is more specific than that. We have a neighbor who is complaining of sand blowing down on Rhode Island Avenue and putting sand in front of his driveway making it difficult to get out. He says that sand has accumulated to a foot or a foot and a half. My question to you is, is that accumulation something you call a dune. ',~.. Mr. Kelliher says part of a dune. Mr. Wall says does that neighbor have the right to move that sand. Mr. Perry says not without a permit. Mr. Woll says even though there might be one windstorm that puts a foot and a half of sand in front of that driveway, even on a registered, recorded right of way on a plan of land. Mr. Perry says I do not speak for the commission but in my opinion he does not have permission to move that sand around, it's a dune. Mr. Forns says with the order of conditions he does. Mr. Woll says that's one issue. That may be your position as a matter of law. So this board is going to go ahead and be at 10gget-heads wi th the DPW or the 'f ire department or other boards in this town interested in Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 31 maintaining those roads open. The factor that is unique to this particular property which the neighbor doesn't have is this property ha$ an order of conditions permitting him to move sand arofnd on his property to maintain that access. Mr. Willet says he thinks it is more specific than that. Mr. Perry says you have to go back further than that. The Notice of Intent was filed. You had two choices. First he wanted to put a second story on the house or expand. He was not allowed to expand but was allowed the second story. When it was filed there was a problem with the access in and out of, the house. There was windblown sand up against the, doors. That's'what they were a~l~wed to move .d theycduld, open the door of the hous.; Noth~ng ~n the Notice of Intent or in the Order of Condition~ provides vehicular access. Mr. Forns reads from the notice: To permit egress to the property and buildings and that's what the authorization is on your conditions. To relocate sand. Mr. Perry continues Mr. Anapol owned it in 1976, he presumes~ Shows a picture of the area in 1976 when he didn't have vehicular access. Mr. Anapol says he absolutely did. Mr. Woll says this house couldn't have been built without vehicular access. Now it's a question of maintaining that access that the order of~condition allows. Mr. Willet suggests we get some input from the \ commissioners on how the plan should be treated and also a course of action. Ml-. Kelliher says in his experience with the proposed driveway even though it wiggles a little bit we are still going to have scouring around the house. Will have the same problem you had this fall. And the sand from around the house is going to blow right down Rhode Island Avenue. You're got to have bigger wiggles in the road than that. It is going to be like a funnel. Loose sand from around the house is going to continue to disappear. You're going to need a constant stream of trucks out there to replenish it every time the wind blows. Mr. Anapol says Dan, you and I know that for years that sand never moved. The sand was on top of the porch and you had to shovel it off. Mr. Kelliher says that's because the dune was a different configurat.ion. I~~C- :, ..;~.WO;ard"".t;r,,,,,, " ':\,-~{ 'lll'*,,'iifJ'i'\e, Meeting Miriutes;loT t>ecember 19, 1991 page 32 Mr. Anapdl says it changes year to year. Mr. KellIher says from the looks of this picture taken in 1976 the dune was between the house and Rhode Isl.s'nd Avenue. Mr. Anapol says we always drove right over that. Mr. Kelliher says there's a car that is ~arked there. Mr. Willet says 'he tends to agree with Mr. Kelliher--it's just a tunnel c-nd is still a tunnel-. We're going, to have pr:lblems. M,,-. Wo II says are you siJ,ggest i ng thc.'tz igzag b,g ~h~rper then. Mr. Willet says I would think that may do a little more. Mr. Kelliher says it would ~low the sand down. Mr. Willet says he thinks th'at's a little heavier impact than we'd like to see but at this point we're open to, anything new ,and novel. Mr. Woll says he 'thinks one of their concerns was you might react negatively to a sharper zigzag. Mr. Willet says it is going to impact to a larger degree. What we've been trying t6 do is to minimize this whole thing. Mr. Forns says we have made switchback roadways to the beaches on the Vineyard. Granted we're showing this as a plan but the plan is not cast in concrete; there'~ nothing that's permanent. If it turns out that snowfencing has to be a little sharper, it may be that the side slopes can be vegetated, there can be other conditions where we can spray material on. Having the access and having a problem are two things that have to' be r-esolved. Mr. Willet says the definition of access-~vehicular access right to the house -- we don't think that is the case and that's essentially why we've been trying to steer you in this direction (a footpath) which you've been very reluctant to take up. Mr. Wall says we do have a core of a management plan and it's being done in such a way to take a step and see what the I effect is, then take the next step based upon it. Mr. Willet says he thinks that is what we were suggesting before. To see how it stabilizes first, leave it alone and ~eU-ng MJ,nutes fpx December 19, 1991 page 33 don't keep blowing the tunnel through there and see what we can do. Can we stabilize this or are there so~e other effects here that we don't understand. As I say, fine, stabilize thi~ ar-ea tU.lt leave the driveway, just don't get into that at the moment. Mr. Forns says that is the last thing we are going to do. Ms. McColl says but you just said you were going to open it up. Mr. Fornssays ~heopening is o~ly going to be 4' as I say in the plan. We will make that a tighter sw~'tchback. . : 'Mr. Wilson says 4' acc.essthrough this prop03=d S' driveway area. What's going to go through 4'--a bobcat? Are you going to drive through that area. What are the elevations of the cut that you intend to make through that area to give whatever vehicle you're going to drive through access. There are no elevations whatsoever on this. Mr. Forns says if you'll read the document we say we are going to leave the initial pathway at grade. Mr. Wilson says as it is right now? Mr. Forns says at grade. Mr. Wilson says what ,ve~icle are you going to drive through there; the last .J:ehicle~that tried to go through there got stuck. Mr. Forns says at this point it will be just the workers putting uP snowf~nce. Mr. Wilson says but you are going to be bringing in some sand, r'ight? Mr. Forns says later, towards the end of it. Mr. Wilson says when they begin the work this winter are they walking in? Mr. Forns says yes, they are just bringing in four or five bundles of snowfencing. Mr. Wilson says where it says access and grading, Decemb~r/January, they will be walking in with the materials? Mr. Forns says we wanted to use a little bobcat to create a little path on the unvegetated portion. ~ Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 34 Mr. Woll says the plan is this. There is an access at prese'nt that a bobcat will go through and turn into a switchback. It willac:centuatethe switchback mare and we'll see what the impact will be. It will be an access that is 4' w~de because that is what a bobcat does and will eliminate some of the straightness of that path. We'll see if that works. It may need to he sharp~r later and may need some sandfencing later but let's go ahead and take it step by step. Zigzag more so we will reduce the flow of sand that's coming through there right now and then put in at the same time the sandfencing and if we need more sandfencing up towards there, then we can try that and see how that works. And take it step by 'step as we go along. Mr: Wilsori says o.k. Ms. McColl says so you'll be opening the driveway up right away? Mr. Woll says it's not a driveway. Ms. McColl says you're opening the aCcess up right away? Mr. Woll says the access is there right now. Mr. Willet says a footpath. Mr. Woll says right now it's fairly straight. If we switch it back and make it less straight but do the switchback right now, th"hwill eliminate, hopefully, and entrain some of that sand. If that's not sharp enough or we can't abate that further by some additional zigzags and sandfenc i ng. . . ) Mr. Willet says that's fine as long as it's not wider than the footpath. Mr. Wilson says may we have elevations. How deep you intend to go on that? Mr. Forns says we haVe the base plan done now and once we get the snowfencing located and everything in, we have 50me benchmarks we're working from and will have a series of elevations. Mr. Wilson says before any cut is made? Mr. Forns says before the cuts are done we'll have elevations. Notes we do have to put fill in by the corner of the house. M!-. Pen-y sa,'s and the fill is coming from trle cut? ~leeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 35 Mr. Forns says we aren't making the cut per s~. He thinks they'll take, it from the driveway portion down by Rhode Island Avenue. (,r. Perry says so you' nt go i ng to take a bobcat, .f ill it up with sand and put it down behind the house, over and over again? Mr. Kell ih~l- says what' s going to happen whent.he bobcat get's stuck going over the dune like the backhoe did? Mr. For,ns says we' 11 come back and. say we have a prob I em a~d think df' sOMethi~g different. Mr. Wilson asks if there is sufficient sand in Rhode Island Avenue to do what you want to do? Mr. Forns says enough to do the initial filling. To complete the job as is noted on the plan we will need about 200 yards. Mr. Woll says it may be with the sandfencing in there we might entrain enough sand to minimize the impact. Mr. Wilson says this was the suggestion he made the last time you were here, that perhaps ,that's what you should do first and leave the driveway alone. Mr. Forns says that'~what we're doing first. Mr. Wilson says then why do you have to go in with the bobcat? Mr. Woll says the issue of the switchback is to accentuate the switchback so there is less of a funnel. Mr. Wilson says but you are going to be lowering the elevation of that notch. Mr. Willet says, Mr.Wils,on, you'l-e appr'oach would be to just put the snowfence into position now and see what happens. Then go on to the next step. That sounds reasonable to me. Mr. Wilson says, but J'm saying, do not do the switchback. Mr. Willet says let it go at that and see how we do there and then let's go from there. Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 36 Mr. Forns $ays if someone comes along from the. insurance company they at'"e going to,c:anClel the inslJrance on the house because the Tire depar tment. doesn I ct.. have access. Mr. Willet says the fire department hasn't had access for years. Mr. Wasierski says during 1966 to 1969 he was Mr. Anapol's plummer. From '66 to '69 he owned a two wheel drive vehicle. I want to guarantee you there wasabsollJtely no vehicular access from Pennsylvania Avenue to Mr. Anapol's cottage because I walked inthe~spring and I walked in the fall. When I got a four whe:el drive truck in '69 I drove 0.VGr the dune to M,-. ,Hl1ap'O I' s cc.ttage _ ,'fhere .was no vehicu'::'ar traffic for' any two whee1.: drive vehicle to get: there during that time~period. Mr. Anapol disagrees. Mr. Willet says I'd like to get on with something else. Mr. Wasierski says has anything been done in regard to that enforcement order. Mr. Woll says the enforcement order has been satisfied. Mr. Wasierski says how. Mr. Wall says we have done exactly what you've asked us to do. We have filed, tke fencl:? is in process. The enforcement order says to put fences up, start the fencing, that's been started. Secondly, it says to continue to put fencing and otherwise entrain sand. So the fencing is a process that you start. Also the enforcement order requires us to file a plan and that has been filed. Those are the only two things the enforcement order asks us to do and both of them have been don~. Mr. Perry says the order asks within 10 calendar days to install snow fence. Asks if that has been installed. Mr. Woll says not completely. Mr. Perry asks if it has been started. Mr. Forns says it just got here today. Mr. Perry says he was out there at 4:00 tuday and it was no tins t a lIed. Mr. Wall says let me point out another thing on attachment A to the enforcement order. It says the plan ~ Me~ting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 37 shall include but not, be limited to the following items: locations ofe the installed snowfence and proposed snowfence to entrap windblown sand around the house. So the enforcement order contemplates a process we're going through. We have endeavored to comply with that enforcement order. Second thing, I'm not going to throw down a gauntlet. I don't think it makes sense to do that. But I have a real question whether this enforcement order is valid. Mr. Willet says we hear that all the time. Mr. Wollsays I would suggest that you find that the enforcement order has been satisfied. , Mr. Willet says ~~ hasn't as of ~oday. Con(inues what I would like to do is have you get the snowfencing in place as is outlined in your plan. Take a look at that for a little while; see what happens. When the snowfence is in place, contact Mr. Perry and he'll take a look at it. Mr. Anapol says it is in h~s driveway right now and Stephen Rickard is going to install it. Mr. Perry asks if we are waiving the $300/day. Mr. Willet says he's not prepared to comment at the moment. Ms. McColl says if th,ey could get the snowfence up starting tomorrow, and i-rthe driveway access area is not touched, or used as a swi t,chback, unt i I the snowfenc i ng is installed, and see whether or not it does what it is supposed to do... Mr. Perry says before they drive the bobcat up the ;hill they should ask the commission. Ms. McColl says we should inspect it before anything is driven in there. Mr. Wasierski says he thinks we should get the state down here and get them involved. Mr. Willet says if something isn't done by next time he'll do a lot of commenting. Mr. Perry says he has some questions. It says the switchbacks will be first maintained at 4'. Is that width? Mr. Forns says width, yes. Mr. Perry asks what existing grade is--grade of sand. -- ",' ,,":J'~":.... ' - Meeting Minutes for December 19, 199-1 page 38 Mr. Forns says weare using a benchmark that we started with originally and then eventually they are going to bring it up to that grade that showed what it was prior to then-- whenever the upgraded site plan was done--thinks it is 1985 or 1988. Bac:hil1an's plan is exhibit C. There is a date of elevations-- (1981 revised to 1983). Mr. Wilson reads it is between 20.2 and 20.4 feet. know what it is now? Do we Mr. Forns says in some places it's down to 18. something. Mr'. Wil?on says 'where is it where the cut is made thro~Jgh th2 dune now, what is tiie highest ,po:n't? Has' it been surveyed? Mr. Forns says yes, they went out that day and put the stakes out but part of it is built up again. Mr. Wilson asks but what was the elevation? Mr. Forns says he doesn't know, he doesn't have it with him. They are just doing the pl~ns right now. Mr. Perry continues reading the description of the driveway construction and says, in his opinion, you can't do that without filing a new Notice of Intent. You're filling and altering a dune, clearly. That's not in your old permit at all. ~ Mr. Forns says that is the last part and assumes ev~rything else proceeds according to plan; if a new notice is nec:essary, they will file one at that time. Mr. Willet says first we have to get the snowfencing In place and ~ontt do anything else. Then have them satisfy the terms of the enforcement order. Then we'll take it from there ..., Ms. McColl says don't make the switchback through the dune. Put in the snow fenc:e. Mr. Wilson says also an elevation at this point of existing conditions, as they are today. Mr. Forns says they want to get all the snowfenc:ing located first. They will then get the elevations and that will be their base zero conditions. From those conditions we will monitor the accretion. . Meeting Miuutesfor December 19. 1991 page 39 Mr. WiLlet says let us know next meeting what the elevation is and call Mr. Perry as soon as the snowfencing is in; we do waDt to verify that that's in. Mr. Perry asks for a response from Mr. Anapol or his agents' but recei~ed none.' I':,' ,c I Mr. Woll says he would like to clarify one thing. He understands this came up at the time of the decision to issue the enforcement order that the board was concerned that no one appeared and nothing had been filed prior to that. Is that fair to s~y. We understand that you weren't ,made aware that evening of Mr.F6rns'~'~all to Mr. Perry that afternoon. , . Commissioners~espond they knew abo~t it. Mr. Perry says it is in the minutes, that Mr. Forns called somewhere ,between 4 and 4:30 p.m. the afternoon of the meeting and left a message on the tape. Ms. McColl says, we were, told he called quite late in the afternoon of the day he was told to be here two weeks ahead CJ f time. Mr. Wall says it seems to him, looking at this, that there is SOme antagonism. Mr. Willet says what it is we have a certain approach of something wearetnying to do and we're not getting very much cooperation. Obviously you believe vehicular access is your absolute right. We feel that perhaps you don't have to have vehicular access right to the house. That seems to be the sticking point only because it is the only access and it is a straight line and it~s blowing out that whole area. Mr. Wall says he gets a sense that there's an emotional content to this as far as the board is concernedA Mr. Willet says only because perhaps it's been going on for so long and nothing is being resolved. Mr. Wall says he thinks we ought to be aware of that emotional content and be careful of how it might drive behaviors. There are differences of opinion as to observations, what one should and should not have. But those differences of opinion have to be respected and should not rise to the personal level. Mr. Willet says absolutely; I agree one hundred percent. b. Mink - 83 Squaffi Road - SE48-668 - (13-5) minor mod Meet~ng Minute~ for Pecember 19, 1991 page 40 Present is the new owner Mr. Roy Makowsky. Mr. Perry says one of the conditions the order required on this property was to come back when they had some house plans. Mr. Makowsky presents a new plan with the building envelope. Since arc's were used to get it away from the wetland the line and they are proposing minor mods which will give up a little and ask for a little because they will build the house square and not with arcs. The second thing is they had first tried to incorporate the existing house into their plan but found there were a lot of problems with it so have decid,ad tG move the t)Ciuse a,wilY and in exchange, 'for 'giving 'up sOflleproJ-:imity of the ,'wetlanc-s w~",ere the footprint of the house is, they hope to be able to expand out on the lower side. The other problem with the footprint is the driveway approach which he would like to straighten. The final change is they would like a brick and dry sand terrace in lieu of a wrap around porch which wouldn't fit. There are also going to be 6' doors on the back of the house and they would like a lit~le overhang to keep the water from blowing in and leaking. Notes the plan shows in orange the improved envelope that they don't want to use, the purple is outside the approved envelope where because the house is a rectangle they have to go outside a little. So instead of 28' from the wetlands they are bringing it back almost 50. In return they want to come out down on the side making it 40' from the wetlands. In essence, they want to move the entire structure back further from the we!land except for the rectangle area. Notes the coastal bank is a very mature bank and has a lot of vegetation; in the last storm the debris line was at the base of the coastal bank. Mr. Willet asks Mr. Perry what he thinks about making this request as a minor mod. Mr. Perry says he doesn't have much ofa problem with all this give and take. Mr. Makowsky says if there is a problem with any of the suggestions they are flexible. If the patio is going to be obje4tionable they can move it back. Mr. Willet says if you can move that back it will be good. Mr. Perry adds if the overhang is one or two feet he sees no problem but thinks extending out to 44' is more than a minor mod. I 'Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 page 41 Mr. Makowsky says he could also cut the overhang in half to 3-3 112 I . MOTION: To grant the request as a minor modification with a 3' overhang making it 47' from the bank is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS c. Voigt - Sta~buck Rd - discussion septic replacement Present for the applicant is Attorney Melissa Philbrick. M~. Ph~lbrick~ays the s~ptic system' has ~~iled. Point~ out' the lot and lando,wned by the Conser~ation Comc"ission. It is subject to sOfi\erestrictions for conservation pUt-poses and is to be kept open but recognizes that it may need to be used by abutters for replacement of failed septic systems. 1t does not create that right without an easement, however. She. is here to see if we are comfortable with them putting in a septic system to replace" the failed system. She will have to go to Town Meeting to get permission from the town. Commissioners review the plan and see no problem. .- Ms. Philbrick says she will talk to the Board of Selectmen about getting on the warrant. Mr. Perry suggests a~ter she has drafted the documentation and the ea~ement plans the commission submit it to the Board for her in order to save the ten signatures. d. ZBA Application - 10 Starbuck Rd. - (59.3-062) e. Mtg w/DEP- 1/7/92 10 am, Sesachacha Pond f. Land Court Petition - Slade - <73.1.3-27) Mr. Perry says they want to register a parcel of land in Codfish Park and the question is do we have any interest. It is within our jurisdiction. Attorney Arthur Reade says no one is proposing to do anything; it's just a matter ~f registering title. Commissioners agree we have no inter-est. 6. CORRESPONDENCE r . Meeting Minutes for December 19, 1991 7. MINUTES: for Decemb~r 5, 1991 page 42 MOTION: To accept the minutes as drafted is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS B. BILLS TO BE PAID 9. FIELD INSPECTIONS: Monday, January 6, 1992 3:30 MOTION: To Adjourn the meeting at 10:45 p.m. is made and seconded. UIW~N I NOUS .<