HomeMy WebLinkAbout1991-11-07
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Town of Nantucket
Conservation Commission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
MEETING "INUTES FOR.'~R 7. 1991
i:
The meeting waseall.Clto order at7:0Sp..m.. in the Large
Group Instruction ROom o"'theNantuc'k.tMtOh~"ool.
Commissioners present were William Will.,t,l..aura Hussey, Peter
Dunwiddie. Diane "McColl , Daniel Kellitte,. ,am:t:Petler Wilson. Also
present were Bruce Perry, Administratot', "'aridl..uc:ia Wyeth,
secretary.
A. COttttENTS AND QUESTIONS FROM PRESS AND PUBLIC'
B. PUBLIC HEARINGS
1 .
Richards - 25 E. Tristram Ave.. ,- SE4e--~09 ... '(31-1)
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MOTION: To continue at the applicant*s request is
made and seconded.
Ves - 5
No - 1 (Peter D.)
2. Poor - QUidnet-SE48-635 (20-49, 50..2, 50.3; 21- 58, 119)-
3. Poor - Quidnet - SE48-637 (21-122, 118.1, 119.1',119.2)
MOTION: To continue at the applicant's request is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
4. Dunham - Tristram Avenue ...- SE48-h66 .....' (31-02)
MOTION: To continue at the applicant's request is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
5. Bordes - 12 Oakland St- SE4S....664 -(59.4-187-192, etc.)
Presentf'or the applicant is ;JoRin Shugrue.
Mr. Willet says he and Mr. Perry have been to the house
to as'c:ertain the humber of bedromns.
@ ~dedpaper
Mr. Shugt"ue says he has done a revhied pl.., which shows
the deck cantilevered out an additional 2'and after your
I
inspection he didn't change the number of bedrooms.
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Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 2
Mr. . Wi lilet says we found what might be termed 7 proper
bedrooms and a loft; there was some debate on whether to
count the 10ft as a bedroom.
Mr. Perry says one bedroom you had to go through a
bunktoomto get to and;!...... really ,sort of an emtry way to the
bedroom.but>there were an number of room!5 'with beds in it.
Mr. Shugrue says.l')eth inks 8 is more proper.to comply
. with ,Title V and do it properly.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks have we decided that we want this
e>.<pans'icmarea,c:onstr-uctedth.t fills the wetland.
Mr. Willet says we don't want it constructed but it has
to bel.Hd out, is that it?
Mr. Shugrue says it has to be laid out to comply with
Title V..
Dr. Dunwiddie says it has to be laid out but not
constructed. Does it have to show it on the plan?
Mr. Willet says it has to show an expansion area. Adds
he doesn't know if in our order we can say the old one has to
be dugout and redone.
be i~r~o;~~i~~~es:i:hn~i~~~a~~e if you do that ,ou will not
Dr. Dunwiddie says in other words we're say~ng you can go
ahead and fill the wetland by building the expat-sioh area.
Mr. Willet says from what I understand that s what we
have to say.
Mr. Perry says they don't have to construct the expansion
area.
Mr. Willet says you can choose to
area andredott"aat.
I
dig out ~he
original
Dr. Dunwiddie says buti'f we can't force them to in an
order, 'why would they do it.
Mr. Perry saysfle doesn't u~erstand; know~Richard Ray
has issued septic replacement permits that req~ire if the
system fails they dig it up andreJuveaate it in'thesame
location.
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Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 3
Mr. Shugr~e s~ys yes, ons~alllots whet"e you don't have
the room 'most 'of the time the one's that he has done you were
no where's cloSE! to being able to comply with Title V.
Mr. Willet says but if thE! expansion involved filling a
wetland.
Dr. Dunwiddie says from my p'erspective you're not close
to (:Qmplying withoul""regulations. Vou're in a wetland,
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you.rE! not 100' from a wetland, you're in it.
Mr. Willet asks Mr. ShugruE! if he has talked to Mr. Ray
about ,not using the ~xpansion area.
Mr. Shugrue says yes and t"ight now Mr. Ray is more
conC;ernedClbo~t: g.~ti.ng it a~ay fr~m ..,herei t, is right now
andthetfig wet I Clnct and is not. too concerned Illbout the small
wet land. .,
Mr. Perry asks. if he has, to get a variance from the Board
of HeCllth because''Yo~'~!! .50 close 'to the wetland?
Mr.Shugru~says nobec:ause.i t j s making a problem system
a lot bettE!r. .
Mr. Willet suggests we make arecommendatior to Richard
Ray that the expansion area not be used and we not issue the
order until then.
Mr. Perry says we' could close, ,the h.ar i ngCll")d issue it in
two weeks and he could talk to Mr~RClY between, now and then.
Dr~ Dunwiddie says he thinks a recommendation is just
that and nothing mOre.
Mr. Willet says right now he doesn't even have that from
us so there's a shot here. If he doesn't then we can get
into this.
Mr. Shugrue says he has a few other comments. #16 should
be dropped.
Commission~t"s discuss and say they don't see anything
wrong with leaving #16 in.
Mr. Shugrue asks how many bedrooms the commission has
decided upon.
Mr. Perry states that the 1.of.tis open to the living room
below and the bunkroom is the entry way to the other bedroom.
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Commissioners discuss and three agree on 7, one on 3.
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,';Mf!eting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 4
Mr. Shugrue comments II OK see you in .court" and asks to be
at the meet! n~W':i'~h Mr. Ray"
MOTION: .T9 continue thtt 1]Ef.~ringfor additional
informatibn is made andsec:onded~
UNANIMOUS
"
6. Ducksholm Nominee Trust- SOShawkemo Rd, S~?te-?71 ...;(27-2)
Present for the applictilnt i!;iMr-.Les Smith.
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Mr. Willet asksc if a shell f'ish inventory has'been done
yet.
Mr. Pf!r rY:$ays tl]eMlllrine:>p,eP.:trtm.,,1r t''',Ve ~f!en.~u~ there
and foundshellflsh and. Eel Sfass',on both>sides bU1:.,he
doesn't have anything yet in writing.
i-I
Mr., 5",.i th sC1y..ttlet;Jr~vious rftPort,. frolnttae,}~a-;~nf!
Oepart'ment indicated',theY~ia"'twcanta,fi>ced piti!r;tl':lJlt ind1"d
the, a~terntBt ive locat.ioT1 Jb.eyshowep4i!ar!ierhqwever, they
i nd i c:cat ea f I oati,ngpl..!tr:..ane:hored on 'shor.eaoo r.mcwed
annually by Octobttr 15 would be more acceptable. The
f.1oating dock was, pr.",.""ted at the last hearing. In
a;d,diticm, there were ,$9mediscussion about, rec:reational
interest and he has a few points on that. Shows a nautical
chart of the harbor .howing the location 'of' the old dock
which eKtend 30-4() , f'tor lo,w water. The ruins still are
preSie'tat there. Alsoiqn Shimmo Point is a rock field. Both
of these are obstacles to navigation.
I
Mr. Perry notesth,,'t Mi-. Fronzuto has said the posts for
this dock had been cut off almost level with the bo~tom so
someone had made an at empt to get them out of the way.
Mr. Smith says in erms of impacts on recreational
interests there isn't I]at much opportunity to utilize tha~
area between the existing floats and the shorel i nee Again,
i
the floats would be pu 'led out seasonally. In terms of
wetland scenic views~ hows an aerial photograph of Ducksh~lm
dock from 1926 which is much longer than what they are
proposing.
Ms. McColl asks when that former pier was removed.
Or. Ounwiddienot~s the pier was there in 1933 but no '
longer there by,the lalte 30's. Suggests the '38 hurrican.
may have taken it off. .
Mr. Willet notes we do not have a report from SHAB.
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Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 5
Mrs j)!a....Coombsspeaksonher own behalf, f"lo..t in any
offi.cial.. capaFity~ She has spent 10 years on th~t water
where the pier is proposed and know.s depths ,oifthesandbars.
Reviews the plan and points out the sandbar and a flow of
water and .pointsoutthat, the pi 1 1'igs of a. pier would create
a impingemetlt for Eel Grass and debris toc;ofileup against and
starttobui ld.. up. She adds that you can sca'1lopalmost
right up to the shore in this area. Vou have, a flood of
water- that goes a.,r-ound this point and goes do~nhere through
a littlechann.l~ ,AroundPimney's Point i~getsvery thick
with deadEet ~rass, notsc:alloping EelGrass b....t.suffocating
Eel Grass.lt;n~eds this floHing action tOkl!~P, this clear.
It is very Shall,... in here and it is an ex.tr...,efy rich
$calloPl:leda,:""rich ~eed bed. A pier wi 11 start to impede
. >'thefl~"'ofthe ...ater ilndw i 11 sha 11 ow th i s uptq 'an ex tent
that.will.j"f'fe~t,;,~he rest ,of this area. This shore action is
very. impor~~iJr:.tcifikeep this area viable.
-
Mr.. Smith polnts there are no piles from the ihtertidal
zone out in this proposal.
Mr. Perry'says the new propos~1 will have an even greater
effect on th! current. than the pilings. The floats, if not
resting on the bottom, will be'/close to resting on the bottom
the majority of the day.
Mrs. Coombs says it does not matter what season it is,
the build up of sand, flotsam, jetsam from the upper harbor
will occur and an area like this where you have sandbars and
then trenches and then sandbars again, it's inevitable that
it builds up and whether you put something down that's
floating or stantions in the water the stuff starts to build
up behind it and to shallow out an area that shouldn't have
this happen. When Mr. Karp was interested in putting out-a
pier of pimney's Poiht .we did a very serious study on this
same thing and so did he and he came to the conclusion that
he was not going to imprOve the shoreline or the scallop area
by putting a pier there and he withdrew his pier application
and did not go forward because of this same thing. When the
wind comes on a northeaster it brings the stuff with it and
.this happens at any time of year, not just winter, because
the scallops are growing at any time of year.
Mr. Smith says usually we get Northeaster's in the spring
or fall and during that period that floating portion will be
pulled o....t of the :water ~ Agrees that it will be sitting on -
the bottom during low tide.
Mrs. Coombs says when they are sitting on the bottom they
are crushing what 'is below them, they're casting unusual
shadows and they are catching what we're talking about, the'
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Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 6
flqtsamtpat comes down tha,t, way. Four months of' the year
they an! out th.,rethey~ansti 11 start to, create abed and
thtty rai$e~tan8sit on it more and it iSn't a good place as
far as shellfiSh are ~oncern.d to have a pier.
Mr. Smith asks if any ,knows ther-e was,~ documented
problem with the pier that was there in the 1920's.,
Mrs. CQomb~ says she doesno>t bel i,eve ,thCit in 1920 there
was not as heavy a. load Din sc:al),oping, thertt w~snpt the
heavy load Df pollutlon a,qdpeople were not awar:~ cd' what the
environmental im~ac;:t,~as;ofhaving piers. ~~gJ')t now we are
spending a gt;"eat, deal of mOhey creating a viabl.tfproduct in
raising sc.,llopsand keepin~the harbor a...or-k~n';.and livable
place for $hellf~sh of all types but particyl~r:IX.C:allops
and it has to be considere~. .,Wh4i!nyou' re taf~i~'b,out
natural things, w,,!at happene(jin 1920 O,r 191~0r:J,Q9i3 is not
pertinent. When the piers went they didn't replace them and
kept them to a minimum.
o
Mr. Kelliher moves we continue for a report from the Town
Biologist and SHAB.
Mr. Wilson asks if we have any figures on the tidal flow
of the current across that area.
Mr. Kelliher says that would come from the Town
Biologist.
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MOTION: To c;o,ntinue I'the, hearing foy- additional
informatio.n is made "n4 seconded.
}
UNi;\NIMOUS
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7. Robi Blumenstein - Squa",Road - SE48:-673 -(21-120)
Pres,ent for the a,PP I iean is Mr. Shugrue who presents
revised plans of the wetland line.
Mr. Shugrue submits a pl,n showing the revised boundary.
MOTION: To close t~e hearing and draft an order is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
* 8. Ted Godfrey - 325 Polpis Road - SE48-674 ~ <25-40)
Discussion of this appl~cation is deferred until
compliance with file #SE48-415 is resolved.
* 9. Wiley - 39 Baxter Road - (49-10 8. 49.2.3-4)
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Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 7
Mr. Perry says this needs to be continued for Appendix A.
MOTION: To ec:mtinue at the applic.nt'5 request is
lIlade.and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
* 10. Geyer ~ 11 Woodbury L,.ane ... (41-550)
Present for the applicant is M,r. Glen Wi U,5 and Attorney
Rachael Hobart.
Mr. Perry notes that Dr. Dunwiddie's naIDe is on the plan.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he never saw his name actually on a
plan before.
Mr. Wilson_asks are you indeed the same Peter Dunwiddie
whose name appears on the plan?
Dr. Dunwidfdie~ay,s he was in the field and he'll have to
take Mr. Wills word for it that_the line is what they agreed
on.
Mr. Willet says the only thing they had some questions
with was some pfoposed plantings.
Mr. Wills says the whole dwelling will be outside of the
50' buffer zone. Says they will put in a limit of work fence
at the 25' li"e frQIno the eEhje of the wfi!tland if tne
commission would like although the wetland 1s at a higher
elevation than the lot jtself. Th$y have requested a waiver
from the 25' undisturbed buffer as they would like to plant
it with wetland or wetland t:p\Jffer species that the commission
feels suitable for the site. They feel it is now a disturbed
area that has been mowed over into a field that really has
nothing characteristic of a wetland vfi!gfi!ta.tion which is
adjacent at the qther end.
Attorney Hobart says if he can't maintain a lawn he would
like to plant' it: up and give himself some protection and_
privacy. Adds they would like a list of recommendations from
the commission. .
Mr. Perry suggfi!sts they come back. with a planting plan at
the next meeting, or, if they disturb the buffer zone they-
come back with a planting plan. Mr. Perry says we can
suggest at this ;hearing and would rather h~ve him come back
with a p~anting plan.
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M.eting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 8
Attorney Hobart says her only concern is with the timing.
He is in the e.~+ystages of designing his house and is not
sure they. have~:9otteh to a landscape plan.
. Mr. perry,.ayS'heTII include it in the order of
conditions that ,before they dig it up they submit a planting
plan.
Mr. Wi Ils!i1l9geststhat , it be mowed once first and leave
the existing gtfdUnd'c:over toat"is there and pl'&nteach plant
s.PClra~ely.<Alsosays once it's finalized they will p,-,t
t0gether '4 rlwf slon on the plan..
MOTION: To eontiTluefor a file number is made and
sec:ond'ed~-": "
UNANI MOl.JS
* 11. Beineck.
Crooked Lane
SE48-675
(41-203)
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* le. Anders.on
Croo:keCJ Lane
SE48-676 - (41-203.1)
* 13. . ,~~;~~.cke - Crooked Lane ;;.. SE48-677
(41-203.2)
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Pr,4I!sent' for the applicant is Mr. Les Smith and Attorney
Marianne Hanley.
.....
Mr~ Willet says we've seen these proposals before, asks
what changes there .are.
Mr.. Perry suggests the three proposals be discussed at
the: same' time. Says there is an overlay.
Mr.. Smith suggests looking at the wetland first and the
footpri..n1:$ next. Shows" the old wetland line and points the
new litle'is moreconser-vative.
Dr. DLI,rlwiddie asks what that wetland is like.
Mr. Smith says a wet meadow.
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Mr. Perry says it's fairly~flat.
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Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 9
Mr. Willet asks if he has considered moving two of the
buildings closer to the road.
Mr. Smith says they wanted to talk to us first; it is
awfully constrained in terms of placing the pump chamber.
Mr~ Perry suggests a more imaginative design with the
envelopes might help. Also, driveway could be placed along
the side of the house rather than in front.
,
Dr.. Dunwfddie suggests th~ houses could 1:3_~' rot~ted and
configured to something other than a box and might . increase
separation from the wetland. Then you don't have three
houses.lined up on the street.
Mr. Wilson says plus, it's sort of interesting. If you
ryotice the' houses on- the street are. "narrow on the front and
they run to the back like an oldfarmhou$e ort that. side of
the street. On the other side of thest,reet they seem to
face the fitreet squarely. Sort of, getting into the HDC's
purview but if we get any complaints from people it.'s that
they aren't going to be able to see that wet meadow any more
and these three, very long, flat t~ the street, houses.
Ms. MCColl suggests they could be made smaller.
Attorney Hanley says the footprints are fairly small,
less than 1500 sq. ft. and the envelopes include decks. The
zoning~n the area they could go up to 4000 sq. ft.
Mr. Smith says they could do some rot~tion.
Mr. Willet suggests Mr. Perry discus~ the project with
Mr~ Cowen- to see what can be worked out.;
Attorney Hanley asks what the commis' ion would accept as
a minimum which they could bring before he 2BA.
Mr. Willet suggests 15' would cut th setback roughly in
half.
I
Mr. Perry says the other question isf the viability of the
low pr-essure force main and bringing it down West Chester
Strttet, do you bring it within the buffer. zone of any
wetland. Discussion could be included within this noti,ce or
you could file a separate determination~' It may not be a
wetland issue but if you are going to put the pressure main
under the road you want to make sure West Chester Street is
in the right place. 1
Me. Wilson says you mean the street is in the right
place.
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Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 10
Mr. Perry says West. Chester Street, you know how these
d.i rt roads wer'tmade -- they followed the path of least
resistanc:e.
Mr. Smith asks Mr. Perry to point out specifically his
concern..
Ms. McColl says the pipe stops at Dukes Road at the top
of thec;<h i 11. Th~y havle ,noty.~recei ved a state permit for
the ex;t.ension.
Hr. Perry says wasn't th.ere some question about the size
of the pipe.
Ms. McColl....ys YEtS, it ''''.1''ot. as big as thest.te usually
likes. t(:)see., :;;J~'s,<l1l!~().~s~hey,und.rstClnd it .,private line
andwil r- be m.. inta inectpri v4tl~~ly.
., Ms. Cheryl Creightopof the Nantuc:,ket Land Council asks
iJf;oif~."'ere. is gqing to .b~~ny f.illfor any ofth~~Q-nstruction.
l.Jiy"ntbe pro~imi>ty of"thisver-ylarge borderJ......~*.,land when
~ou" Ibok at the Nantucket Soil Survey it's 1 inked with the
"ilJAr.,C)~kSWCl~P,;and it' spart .of.the' Hummock ,Pond Water Shed,
since these thr-ee parcels are being submitted together, the
c;umu~ative impacts have '1;0 be lookad at. A comparison. of
tixistingand Rroposed contour 1 ine,s is important in this
ca.." possibly looking at reconfiguring the pClr-cels or
som,ehow merg i ng so that the buffer zones are met and zoning
variances are lookeda't more closely. Also, sc.ling down the
size of the building envelopes or repositioning them. She is '
not sure that building envelopes are appropriate to be
proposed and reviewed, for sites like this where substantial
varianc:es are being requested. In this case it would be
important to look at the-exact locations of a more specific
'square footage for hqW'ses. It seems like this is a good
opportunity for some more 'alternatives to be looked at.
Also, the m~ddle lot ~s requiring not only. a waiver from the
50' setbacks but for a structure to be built within the 25'
buffer zone and all of the literature on buffer zones and
their importance, par;1:icularly with border.ing vegetated
wetlands and flood storagt! capacities, wildlife habitat, a
lot more needs to be looked at. Presents a letter for the
file summarizing her opinion.
Hr. Smith says. he. doesn't see the need for any filling.
It's very fl'at out there. The existing houses out there are
basically at grade.
Mr. Willet asks where the excavated materials are going
to be stored. ~
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-,:\1;14~'~~:'::4.,~;o':~'}~~;~q.,~l1ff!t~"'~'b!r~~b;:;i~~,;>/,; '.'
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. .
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 11
t1~~ ,t;r.ightop sc)ys a I so the dr i veways a!ren' t $hown and
what type of material'isto be used.
Mr.~miths.y,they will go away and look at .the
recommended changes.
Mr .Wi llet says and Mr.. Perry can talk to Mr. Cowen.
MOTION: To continue for. additional i~formation is
mad. and se~onded.
UNANIMOUS
.
* 14. McMaster - 26 Western Avenue - (87-77)
Present for the applic;:ant is J;lr. Robert ~~ck.
Mr. Emack says this is a proposed garage apartment
approximat~ly 760 sqL,\are feet on Western Avenue: and School
Street. It's located about 20 I fr()m the top of, a...c:oastal
bank and the septic system as has already been di..cussed is
in the ground l.lnder a previous order which has no certificate
ofcompliar,u:e as yet. It..was put in complianc", however,
but itha9notye~ been revegetated.Replanting was
cQntempltl,~efl for this fall but in ac.cordance with SCS
standards they deciQed to wait until spring.
Mr. Perry notes the septic was installed in
so they've had more than a year to complete the
just one growing season.
.July of 1990
plantings not
I
Mr. Emack says that's true so it's negligence/he would
guess.
Ms. McColl asks. if they plan to revegetatfe.
issued
Mr. Wi llet says he would like to see a cart i ,
before discussing anything additional.
Mr. Emack says yes and suggests it could be. 'de part of
this order as an additional condition. A connec lion will be
required for the garage apartment. The notice s ys this is a
coastal bank but is not significant to the interests of storm
damage prevention or flood cpptrol and that being a given,
they haven't requested any waivers. The reasonther're
saying it's not significant is because the bank is about 600'
from the velocity ~one as mapped on th~ FIRM maps. The v
zone as it is mapped closely corresponds with thf frontal
dune. It's 18' on the dune. Between the V zone and the bank
there are e c ~ones and a V zone in between. They feel the
location of t~e bank doesn't allow it to be eroded by wave
action and therefore it doesn't provide any sediment to the
-.rr,~..n
""._ ,!"!IIrf. .
:0 ':~,"::,:~'';I~'~8e:'Il:;~fM~[;$<~:B.~~~,i~;;;::'i):"Z~'iFt.;;:~;',-,:<-;~:
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 12
beach and it's pot bordered by the 100 year flood zone and
doesn ',t provlde"a\vertical buffer to the 100 yi!ar flood
event.
Mr: Petry'asks if it sounds familiar. Says W'erequireda
waiver request for the adjoining lot.
Mr. Emac:k s.ays what we're asking is to determi~e that the
bankwils not r~allYSigni.'fic:ant. fivlt,pr six years ago when
we iriitiall'y submitted for' "the Md1ilsters up the street (not
on this lot) it was determirMed th.t the bank was not
significant. He's not sure, that determination has been made
on this site but that was certainly 'a consideration in
proposing the pr-oJect.
to
Mr. Per~ysaY!3therewas considerable discussion On the
previQustequeslWhichcame i nin 19S5. Also, everyone's
outlook has chartged since then.
,"'!,.'<
Mr. Willet says we.iu?tdetfirmined that the bank was
significantnext,do(),rilnd....eq\Jested a waiver and he thinks
that maybe you should do the same.
;:' i <
Ms. McCollsaysthei.jj~..Ptic:,,$ystem is alreadY in. In my
op'inion if you had to 'CG~,befhret,Js I would be inclined .to
deny it. I think we'have,saidthat the bank is significant.
We said that two weeks ago. Doesn't think we can'say a bank
is significant on one side of the street and not on the other
side of the street. And what the commission did 6 or7 years
agO~t1fngs cha~ge.
Mrj'. Hussey says can't we wai t for the replanting to be
done.
I
Mr. Willet says that's what he was suggesting but he can
submit that if he wants..
Emack says he would be happy to come in with an as
built howing it was placed as delligned if: we grant a partial
certi fcate of compliance for the septic system itself
grant]",g the fact it has not been reveget~ted.
M . Wille~ says why don't we do that, get an as built.
Mr. Kelliher suggests to add the revegetation to the new
or'der . '
Mr. McColl says and the W.aiveT for the building.
Mr. Emac1< says '. they have be.nto the ZBA and have front
yard setbacks on Western Avenue and on School and the side
yard which left barely nothing. TO'make a long story short
-,
"l;"~~~~6~~~kU~~~.\\\1i:*iii;k~;J:.:~"" '
. . :'! f..~r ~n 1 ~. 1 If '[ i1Wt ./~'lIIi 11< ~ J 1lf'~':!i/.'",;
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,;...C:~,;i,~~~'7 l ~'~'~;;.,;
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 13
they got a reduction on, School Street and here but did not
grant one on Western Ave.
Mr. Perry says i't all depends on how it was represented.
Did you r-epresent i~ as a c:oastal bank.
Mr. Emacksays he didn't represent them ,at the ZBA and
the decis~ondoesn't address the Western Avenue issue.
Mr. Kelliher says in relation to the house next door, how
do the fronts line up.
Hr. Emack'says it is set back a fairly good distance but
he will check the distances.
Mr. Perr-y asks why he is grading so much ifit is a
garage.
t;::
Hr,. Emack saysi.t's about 2' of 1'illtlJ get drainage away
from the garage floor. He will ~ry to reduce it a little
bit.
Mr. Perry asks where he is going t.oput the well.
Mr. Emack says t'he well is already in.
Mr. Perry says you are going to have to move it.
Mr. Emacksays he doesn't think so. Title V dictates the
placement of septic systems, not to placement of wells. So
there's no requirement that you place your well further than
100' from a leach pit, although it's certainly advisable.
Mr. Perry says locally there's a requirement.
Hr. Emack says yes but this well was put in before that
regulation. As far as he' knows the local regulation imitates
Title V up to 1990.
Mr. Perry says he will check that.
Mr. Kelliher says he had one installed in 1977, was a
subm~rgible well also, and it was 100' then.
Mr. Emack says this was designed for 100' as well. As he
thinks you all are aware. there's the existence of a leach pit
out there thatwasn' t permi ttedandno one knew.' about it,.
That ,was put in within 100' of a lot of existing wells. It
was done a while ago.
Hr. Perry says his po i nt is you're sUPPQsed to get a
sign-off from the Health Depa~tment for your septic. We know
:..
, IllJlI II ,p._~.~.."",,,.,,,,,,~., . ....,,,,,1. , ,!I"'t
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III
.~.
'''Ml!eting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 14
, "",
the situation th&re but just ground water,. private water
supply protection which is one of our interests, how can we
say yes gQ ahe,ad;"apdl.l..-e that well. We know it's too close
but go right ahe~diU"tduse it. I'd thin.k you'd want to
propose to put tnewell someplace.
Ms. McColl 5~VS $he would like to see th" waiver.
Dr.. Dunwiddie says he wOl"lld like to see the, septic system
taken .out.
Mr. Emack'aYS the 5eptic system was in!ittall~d under a
valid permit.
Mr,. Willet say,s 1:hat ,was just one of Pet,er's little
jOkes, maybe.
MO~10N: To cop~~n~. for.ct~M:i~nillinfprmation and a
':file number is "~deandllecQnded. ~
UNANIMOUS
c. ~_M'~TING
1. REQUEST FOR DETEAt1XNATION
* a. Sherman - Squa", Road - (21-120)
PreSel'ltfor the applicant h~ Jot1n.Shugrue..
, ' ,
Mr.p~rry says tht.is. filing 'for an after ttt. 'fact
brush cut'J:ing that we !iI..w at Blumenstein's field inspection.
He is. looking for. a r:ec:...memcJation. It was within the buffer
zone but ,did .not alt.rthewetland. We could write in the
new" pwne has tomain,..J.tla~ least 25' to the Witt land and let
theexpl' atory trips'+~" 1:h~ ditch regrow unless the
commissio, wanted to do som~thing monetarily.
Mr. elliher makes a motion to that effect which is not
seconded i '
Ms. +CCOl1SUggests finiryg him.
Comm~ssioners disc4sS fining.
Dr. Dunwiddie says heh.at.es to argL,leon the side of the
br\Jshcl"ltter but. hi..' recollect fon ...,.tjl~that;~hex,we:ren' t
~~~~;:l~;I~~~~i:~.hiS sense is that,'!te ough~ topic::k and
Mr. Perry S4YS i't ....asprimar~ly i~n the buffer zone, on
the other hand he did jpeak to bdth Mr. Sherman and the
>.".~"'-_.''''':~'----'-'~---'''''' "'-'""..W"'I!'IIIIf"':' .~
r'~ P'III~.,'~~
-,-.. ..
;>A'J:*~G(ti:$.r;,.\;;:~'J;:ri;,,'](~~:U;j:";:QZ.(?oi;;'\:':~'Jf~~(.;i,:#<o;;.",\ ' "
,"W!":"';'llill ,[lI)Jn~")f;,;;;,r~,~~T ,lf1l/lllig:;5',1 ,~<j,'":" ,", _', I" "
~,.;!~:j;'":h..~4;~~~~~~~t~~~~'i"~:i;til~;;''''~~+'--_'~
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 1991
Page 15
pe~sort who did. theb,ru!iDcutti1'1Q the beginning of the summer
5cly'ing befor.they t3rlJ~"c~t' they should fi Ie a determination
so they were forewarned. '
Dr. Dunwiddie says that's a different story.
Mr. Shugrue says Mr. Sherman instrlJ,cted the brushcutter
to file before he went in there.
Ms. McColl asks if we have anything in writing.
Mr. Perry says only telephone notes; no letter was sent.
Mr.. Kellih.rmal<esa motion to issue a determination
.subject to but wi 11, not alter any more.. Adds I/!IIEt have no
~' ....., ,', . :." ,"",'). .... .'.. '; ,": ".. ." .'. ..: . '( .' .::~ . .,. .' ,
pt'oof whotne brushcutter was and no documentation.
--
Mr. Perry says Mr. Sherman told him who he hired to do
the brushcutting.
Dr. Dunwiddie says we could do a token fine.
Mr. Perry SilYS ...~could either f&sue" the determination
and the fine or.r-equir. a notice of intent. He doesn't think
it is notice level filing..
I
I
Dr. Dunwiddie says we need to establish a policy on
b!"ushcutting.
Mr. WilH!t says we've already tried that 4nd it always
comes down to a case by case.
Mr. Perry says the commission policy is you request
before you do it; that's as close as we get to policy.
Dr. Dunwiddie says the owner has said he'll let it,grow
back and won't do it any more?
Mr. Perry s~xs that,will be in Blumenstein's order if he
buys the proper~y.
Dr. pUnwidd~e asks Mr. Kelliher wh.at his motion is.
Mr. Willet responds: Toissl,Je a subject to but will not
alter any more. '
,~
Dr. Dunwiddie says ,that's not really true, he did alter.
Can't we check somethi~g else? I do want to go home tonight.
Mr. Willet ~sks if that is a second.
Dr. Dunwiddie says yes, that is a second.
t
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t1~e~,~pg Minut~s for Npvember 7, 1991
Page 16
MOTION: To issue a subject to but will not alter any
more is m.~e and seconded.
Ves: 3
No: 2
Mr. Wils0f'1$aY5WEtn~ed~0 w(.)rkonthe brU$heutting
regl.J1ationsand pUbllsh them'and send them to anybody that's
in the business.
* b. Town of~~ntucket - Seschacha Pond
Mr.. Per-rya~k5Jfweh~ve the abutter notices.
Ms. Mceo ll'\~!i.ys'+we de) b9t they are on her desk.
;' ',: ~~,.i.' > L':.,: "',',' ",: :':;':' '<' 'r.o,: ,', '. .:"-~:;~!)'!J. ':, ;
MQTIO.....:..i"fp(:cmt iou't for abutter notification is made
. and" seconded.; .'
UNANIMOUS
. ,. .'.'. ","
L
e.. .....~ QF' ~JTI~, (fUll1;~x1; of Order'ii in file)
'I "';['1';" -'?(';j'.>';":;,:'4' ':"; " J 1
a. Hawkes - Esther Island - SE48-669 - ($6.2.3-97)
Present for the applicant is Marianne Hanley.
Mr. Perry says he did see one discrepancy in the final
plans. The septic;: ct~;;lgnshow52 bedrooms but shows 110 gal.
per day. Believes itisa clerical engineering error.
Ms. Hanley says she will mention it to :Jeff Blackwell.
I
I
MOTION: To accept the order as drafted is made and
seconded.
UNANIMOUS
ADDITIONAL SPECIAL-CONDITIONS
J"Ir.. 3'a....".. HaWkes
DEP FI~ENUM8ER SE48 - 669
ASSESSOR. S .'., MAP'$6~2.. 3, > 'PARCEL '97
,...,. ." E!$1:.,erI!IS:.~nd. "
lJNDER'THE..~TTS...WE'f1..ANDS PR()TECTION ACT
.( ttGLiCHAPTER 13~.iJ "..CTION 40 )
AND . THE WETLANDS" BYLAW .017."'1",'. TOWN OF NAN,TUCKET
ii.",(. CHAPT&ti~'>i.') ',', .,
~ " 17
I
Ii
1
WAIVERS UNDER' THE NANTUCKET WETLANQf;ieYLAW:
. . ',," ,
The Nantucket Conservation Commissi~n hereby grants the applicant
the fo llow i ng ., wa i ver- :
""';:V't?P',1-ib!~Jt':'~j';';;(!;~~~~;~';,~~~-
~,.,.", -/;-;:.:;;.,~.s,.l,,:;~Z~~\j$~t'i'~~
Addi~ional Special Condi~ions page 17
1. A .."""iver fro...S~c:tioY),a.04 (B) (3) of the Wetlands
P~ot.(:t ~on'~9ul~t i.on~of the To..,n of Nantucket, under
th~W,~,~aJ;'\C.I~BY1.w .(Chapter 136). This section requires
~h.at""lCl',,@:~!j.c ,S,ys,1;eft\ orbui'lding be constructed on a
b.:rri.rb..~;hol the. !regl.,.llation allows the repair and
mai.nten.nc;~igf. exis,t.ing str-uctures. This waiver would
ap.ply tClthilreloc;ation of.both the existing dwelling and
thein-9r,914nd~eptic syS,~em.
The Commi!ii!iiiQt'Ti~~().~i.~e, the E!xtraordinary nature of. the request
is, due tq>tt1'Cla",a.don~....the "ugU$t 1991 hurricane known as
"~ob"5,UchWalv~rs"~()\Jl.;@~~~Clt 1 ~kelybe'allowed under normal
circumstanc..,. ..T~",~,,",j:s.sion n~tes that the hQuseis an
l.w-r;ully e~:ii.tiqg'~~!\Jqtynf!,anddue.to the constrain.ts the
wetland$~l~(t. on ;:1;.~'.iR~~,pert'Y' therehcas.been a.c learand
convincin,,~~o~ing:~!;t"'.ap:plicant that there ar.,ooreasonable
Conditi9nSiOrral~e'iT~'i!,V~!ii that ,.,QuldalloN the project to
proc:eed i.ql:clf~~!:,.~~~"W~~",!the rfl!gutations. ,The,p"Cifposed septic
system .,"epl~~~t;;~~Et?~~!ie relocation wi 11, as condi tioned
above, ha..,.e'Aoaclv..~.je,"~'fect upon any of the inteT1'e.ts protected
by the BYJaw..nd. willre!)jult in an improvemen.tover the existing.
To deny t.h.!'~'~'~.~'~~'$'tiwould restrict the use of the property
so as to'~0!~_"'t.;alJ'~);9Q'9~1r,~tute a taking without compensation.
Therefore ",t~,s. wtTd~ersal"e granted under the authority of
Sections 1.0$<F)(.1)a.nd 1.03(F)(2)(a), (b) and (c) of the
Wetlands Protec:tion,REtgula.tions..
b. LedgewQod - 355 Madaket Rd - SE48-670 (60-130 8c 134)
Preseflt. are the aPPli.cant Mr. Lawrence Pfaff and Mr. .John
Shugrue, Engiri.er.
Mr. Willet asks for comments.
I
I
)
Mr. Shugrue says we don't like it. Adds Mr. Pfaff has
some thing,s he would like to say.
Mr. Pfaff says last time they asked for a 12' extension
not realizing ygu had concerns over the interior of the house
and more to convince you of _the need for an extension. They
have changed thei,: thInking and now propose instead of 12'
extensio.n on the front which would have gone into the setback
about 18" on the front right hand corner (the northeasterly
,side) a 6' .extension on the back right hand side. The order
states...th.e builc;lingis run down and not habitable and this
will show th~y wa.nt to do something to make it habitable.
Thiswill~allow them to make the kitchen a proper size and
the bathroom a living size. Other points in the draft denial
with regard to a coastal dune belngsignificant to storm
damage: this new proposaltney will be adding to the far
side of the house away from the dune. The point that no
activity will be permitted other than to repair and maintain
the existing struc:ture: that merely confirms his thought
1
....~._,.~.
"_. ~ . -. _. ....
r . ::.'..;;ii,;J<1l.1'''dik}';iY~~\~~s,~I*1!:~d&~Hl*~W\>:Jt,,:!.::c<~/~';j:~~.:,;4,~(;~r,t~~~:}~\:~?;<:~~'l'i,:<1i~: ~i~<:',';"o.'-
':- ,~,'Jj$l,l;;~~:~'2~),~:hj}i::M~{i~{{l{?t[,i;j~~~;f~:;,;;!,~~~i,;;t#~kj,~:::.,. ..~c,;;. .
'.~~ :~' --: ",:,f". . ..-!.~,:;::.~y.:; ,.";;":'-'?
Addi tional Special Conc:li tions page 18
that they could repair the house as it stands where it is,
thELway it is. Having that I icense to do that all they are
asking 'is to do that 'a little bit more 6'onthe far side
aWay~rom the 'dune. ,.,ThiS has all been approved twice
Cbuildingpermi:ts)' before without the restrictions that we
seem to be -facing today... Where it says the commission may
grant a waiver if it finds the proSect will improve the
r,source -area: it" is his experience that erosion occurs due
to vehicle and pede,strian traffic. There 'is no designation
on where to access the beac:h like there is at Dionnis and
they walk sl)(abreast and go upov.rthe dunes. The
sunsetters e:ome down at ni<<;Jh't and there's ),0 sf~n to say you
can see the sunset from, the beach, by going' on 'the dune you
might kill the beachgr-ass, like there is in Dionnistligain.
So as a result the dunes around there are gone. His dune,
however, is. protecsted 'by the'>fence andthe<~(),use..l t 'sthe
healthiest dune in to!loln..~'T:he rest of the drder~~~ks'about
wild I i feand,vegetati~"'Fand hedoe~n,' t ~hil'lk ". that is really
a factor as the ar"ea we' re,.tal king' abDu~ 'i~'a~ay: fro,!,t.,e
dune. A minimum amountofvegetatione)(ist$.'; He'would be
happy to answ,er any quest ionsf that aren. t, covered i.n.n
effort to convince th.c~m,mission that what, they're asking
for is not so much a conser-vationconcerm but more practical
turning something that's'authori2ed into some~hingthat's
bett~rif it were perlVlittedto be done right.'
Dr. Dunwiddie asks for a comment regarding the septic
systems.
Mr. Pfaff says 'the septic system came about because the
other cottage that,'onthat. same piece of l.nd had a backup
and was determined. hat it too had been built about 50-60
years ago and appar~ntly wasn't a very well struc~ured
system. The new s~~tem they put in was for the both
cottages.
Dr. Dunwiddie
it was never filed for, it was a
was there. It was done this 3une.
Mr. Shugrue
replacement for
~ks why didn't you file.
Mr. Shugrue sa s according to Mr. Visco 1'1' you are,
replacing you don' have to file.
Mr. Perry says; that's when you'r-e replacing in 'the same
area and the same'bype. He"snot saying what's there is not
an improvement over 2- 55 9a1londrums butttlat reguHltion
talks only about"th.>leachf.ci~ities.. If'i!'',,,.e-ts Title V
then you need.to ~et thepresWfftption of 'tne act. But :it
doesn't talk to the 'construction o>f'the pro.fect. It hJ well
within 100' of a dune and should have had a de~ermina~ion.
~~';"~'-!';t'("'rl"f"'",~",,"--r,"''I'' ~'IIr." ~~~~ ,,,!'"r,,, C"'"' ~" " .,~.~l"~~-!tt""~~" '_"'~",~.'__ c~'." ___."" ....~
,-
~ .._ _ ,_~ ..4
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t I, ,_",' :~:;:t~;;~':)\';>t:'::;~'fif~':,,',';.,~" '" - 'j':':V~-i;:+;:,\', ,':>
~~;.-;;'~~'" I'~~~'t
1Il'li!IIl1~liJI'f"'"(1\lii""";,,, .. ,', ..'.,,",',.;... ,;:,:;;"..\-" ;" ",,;:;C.}\;;~ii!''''~Wi5',"'lliW'~k' "
Additional Special Conditions page 19
Dr.. Dunwiddie says yov've gQt 60,000 sq. ft. here where
you could have put the septic system in.
Mr. ShugruE! says he did.
Mr. Pfaff says it' ,s qu i te a di stance from the house.
Mr. lSou9rue ShQws...,here the .5;5'g..1. drulps had been; then
they camedownand'wQr~ede...,eryth~r'ClJ .~y f'romyo4r dune in
the area on the other side of his property I i'ne. Says yes,
he 5hould h.ve pr9bably filed a det.rmina~ion after the fact
but they also had tenants in there at the time.
Mr. Perry says if it had been an e~ergency yq~ could have
got a statement from the Health Department and received
certification in a day or two.
, .>,'1'
Mr. Shugrue says it would have taken longer tO,ask them
for an emergency than, to come in,.nd 1'i Je b",~.;tt",e time we
wanted to do it rapidly and right and put a 5yst,f!~in that's
" >
a lot better than what you had there.
Mr. Perry says that goes back to the age of those
filings.
Mr. Shugrue says one was only 4 years ago, in 1987.
Mr. Perry says and in that time it expired with no work
being done.
Mr. Willet asks for othe4 comments on the order.
Mr. Perry says to reiter,te, yes, you can repair and
reshingle the existing structure in its present location but
it's already pa~ked in the I nee The dunes are moving
landward from the wind, prim rily, and they are up against
the house and will soon be u against the addition whether
it's five years from now or 0 years from now.
Mr. Kelliher says he haino problems with this proposal.
Mr. Willet asks for a m1tion on the draft order.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he ha,s a question: even if we grant
this don't you need. a waiver?
Mr. Shugrue says a waiver from your local by-law for the
addition?
1
Mr. Perry says in writing4
._~" 00_ _" ~ ..-aj.)4,ll>o.~"~~~"'~?"\",,,c,.- '''''''-_~''P\'l.,.''' ,q.JI i\III!.1b.
-...-J.."IJ.
r:~\::\". ,- .:,):,:','Z~P4&;':f.l;~~.,.". ~. .'. r~ttlii~~-~~'~J~:!?~:i~.~2.&Wf~~!4',*;W"~~~~itH~,:,,:~1~U:o" l.,-~"': ..~
,', .' ,\.,;:t"y;;~~"'t'4~,>,~<!:'.:);,~~".~;F;""4,,,,;;J~}i";.,,,,~"":t:f'~,~:,:,~.4i'!!:17.j-~"':!::"",,''';'';;'-'~l'i'''~...}O-<,~~, ,,,,;'-'." """"'''.''..''V-' '~.'.'"' ,:" ,~ . -,,~g,~~~\ tH,=;>
Addi1:ional Special Condi1:ions page 20
Mr. Shugr'ue $ays he's been trying to negotiate with you
how big anadd'itfdn so It II know how big a waiver to ask for.
Mr. Perry says the hearing is closed so if the commission
dec ides not to iss.uethe denial now _ then you have to reopen
the hearing. las$ume they would anticipate approval of some
sort of addition.
Mr. Kell ih,er makes a mot ion to reconsider and not issue
the denial that was not<seconded.
Dr. DunwiddiE!says he think!i to do what you're asking us
to do you need<iawa,l ver and the grounds for a wai ver say
there 'snO"l=lr~c:tical al ternati ve and they are granted under
unusual cirCumstances.
Mr. Willet ~ays the commission suggested you move the
buildi~gbacl<r'
Dr.. DunwlCldieiay.;j you've got a hUge lot there, this
$eems like a prime situation to get it out of the dune.
Mr. rfaff asks, how.
Dr. Dunwiddie says move it.
Mr. Wilson says it seemed to him that moving it was the
best option since itwas~o close to the dune, and it will
get C: lOser to the.. dune' over time' and if you're go i ng to be
doing work to it perhaps now is the. time to move it rather
than later on.
Dr. Dunwiddie says we have such problem$ with buildings
and dunes.
\
Mr. Wilson says witness the two houses in Wauwinet right
now that have e~posed foundations and they are going to want
to "leave them there but now is the time to move them.
,~
~ Mr. Pfaff says economics come into play with everything.
This is not the type of an edifice that you'd want to go to a
great deal of e~pens~ to move. Since we have the right to
fix it where it is obviously that's the right thing to do. r
respect dunes as mucb as anyone. I've watched them get
eroded and wasted and killed out there. There doesn't seem
to be a great concern about the other dunes in the area and
what puzzles me is toe right hand front corner of this house
has a little sand blowing against it and that s,ems to be a
big issue. Is it because we're here asking for'itdr bec:.ause
it's in focus at the time. Voucould do a world of good by
putting a path from the bike area out to the beach and
directing the people where to go as opposed to doing what
they're doing. Vou're wasting 8 dunes between where I ..... and
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Addi tional Special ConcU tions page 21
my view. "i-\nd here we are, tryingt() protect sand that's
blowing'aCjJainstthe house.'It'seems to be out Of, proportion.
Maybe that ',s not the right"way, to approach a request for a
favor. , Wethc)'.J9ht.Wte h.-a Iftad~a concession, that we might be
creat i nga b i'gger problEMt, 110' reduced it to six. Doesn't
know what else to do.
Mr. Willet says it has been mentioned if y?U moved it you
could expand ita lot more..
Mr. Pfaff says heunth!rstancts that but that is a
different project completely. . To t,ake that,hQl,.lse which you
have already criticized andrecommended/it:b.'c:iamolished and
try to salvage it and expand it into a pal~..~pl,1ldn.t
measure in the econolft,ic mind!'". liv.~ ..i~h.'ltmy life. II(
I were approaching tryIng to'builC1' a houseinfth'.'t~rea , I'd
respect everything you're saying. Butitls a<~Jtuation
that's theHayitisi. "
f' >,. ~":
Mr. Perry says the previous d~cisi()nw~s.based on the
plan to add 12' and also a deck going' the length of the
house.
Ms. McColl asks would we have to reopen the hearing with
the proposed change.
Mr. Shugrue says to cut it down to six you can do that in
your order because twelve was requested originally. To move
it would have to reopen the hearing.
Mr. Wille~ say we need to either act on the denial or
reopen the herring.
Mr. Wilsq'n asks is there a possibility that this building
may have to e moved at some time in the future.
Mr. Pfaf says not in his lifetime.
Mr. 'Perr i says as the dune migrates landward to the house
you · 11 be d i ~lng i t'annua 11 y or semi-annually. .-
I
Mr. Wils n says there will probably be a time when this
building will probably have to be'moved.
Mr. Ptaff says conceivably.
Mr. Shugrue says theadCtition would tie on piers; the
house is 10'1 td the ground..
Mr. Willet asks for a mot1.on.
Mr. Kelliher says he moves we reconsider the denial of
the order of conditions.
~:._..-...~...._....__._--..-_.._~--............-
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Additional Special Conditions page 22
Mr.., Wi~let~$.l<$that you.want to accept the denial or do
no~ want to. ac(:~pt <the denial.
Mr. Kelliher-,says he does not want to accept. the denial.
Mr. Wilson SaY5 he cannot accept not accepting the denial
a~ it 5tand$,fo.r:th.ead~it~on ,as i,t 5tandsforthe size that
we were talklnga.bout is u,nacceptable to me, the larger size.
Mr. Pf:aff saysbut....e',re asking for six.
Mr. .Wilson;f$~Y$ but :arcm' twe stuck in the other?
,
',.<111"'. (~hugrue~aY$yo4can approve it for six feet because
'that.'.,le$s ttlan"What weor-~g-inally asked for.
. -
"""~T". Kellih_r saYSithat's basi.c:allywtlat hismfi)<tion is,. ,to
tUrn down the den,ialand to accept this new 6' addition plan.,
MOTION: To not,.ac:cept the denial and to accept the
new plan is made and seconded.
Yes: 3 (Kelliher, Wilson, Hussey)
No: 2 (Dunwiddie,McColl)
Chair elects to not vote
t1r. Perry says are w.e.asking them to publish a notice of
a new hearing in the new notice?
Mr. Willet says yes.
Mr. Perry says I guess they have some anticipation that a
pr-oje,,~t wi II be approved.
Mr. Kelliher says this would be a minor modification, a
decrease in size.
Mr. Perry says we've already ext.ended past the 21 days.
thinks this is not a minor;podification. Vou'd have to wait
two more weeks to issue an order. In that same time they can
reopen the hearing and do it properly. Thinks just
redrafting an order for an approval is not the proper way to
go.
Dr. Dunwiddie says they filed for 12'. Vou're talking
abol.Jt ..110~irygi ~ on thissi-de, not movingi t. cwer~ there. I
think 11," they filed for 12'Cilnd.w.e're talking abGut letting
them have .6' right there, that's a minor modification. 1
don't tt:'ink they need to reopen for that.
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Addi~ional Special Condi~ions page 23
M.r. Perry saysw. T1C)t rec;.ived a plan showing.- that. Do
you want...",~, to write ,the order requiring it. We need
permissfonto continue the order for two weeks.
Mr. Shugrue agrees to allow two more week$ to issue the
Order of Conditions.
M'r. Perry reJ terates that the applicant has not even
requested a waiver yet.
c. Bordes- 12 Oakland St- SE48-664 -(59.4-187-192, etc.)
The hearing was not closed but continued ,for additional
information.
3. CERTIFICATE. OF cot1Pt.IANce:
" " '. '.' , "
a. Godfr-ey __ 325 Polpis Road - SE48-415 - (25-40-'
-
Mr. Kelliher abstains from the discussion and the vote.
I
I
Mr. GOdfrey provides a map and says they are proposing to
do a nativ~~fflincljgleflO!Js . planting which woul_d cover 1456
sq. ft. . Has 'also added .i!l. ret..ln~ng wall to prevent runoff.
The proposed pond is shown on the left and is "45' to the
foundation whi.eh is the measurement from the existing wet
area to the foundation of the house. The area under the deck
which is shaded would be covered with 4" of tops_oil and 340
sq. ft. o.f tngl i~h Ivy which to lerate$ the semi-shaded
condit,ions quite' well. Tt'lis would stabilize and prevent a
run-off situation which could possibly o~cur. Lists the
other plantings prop'osed for the shaded areas and the
existing vegetation. Adds he had a meeting with his engineer
who stated he didn't feel the variation in positioning of 15'
due to the property line setback and the other circumstances
which he has already described created the type of violation
that he felt would warr-ant anything as severe as moving a
house or tearing decks off of it.
Mr. Willet says you expanded a deck, however.
Mr. GOdfrey says yes, the deck is what makes the
differ-ence in the wetland setback.
Mr. Wi ll,et say.si you haVre made no modtf,ication on the
dEtck, then, but you are proposing plantings, essentially.
Mr. Godfrey .says that is what he would I ike to ,.propose,
yes.
Abstaining Commissioner Kelliher says heth~,n.ks; Mr.
Godfrey is going to create a more beneficial, ecological
environment there with his upc:oming pond proposal,as does
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Addi tional Special Conditions page 24
Jim Lentowski of the. Conservation Foundation. He's locking
himself ihto ncr'additions, no nothing, and is planting
indigenous wetland species in the areas around the house.
Mr-. Willet asks if part of your proposal n()t to expand in
any way as well?
Mr. Godfrey says he has no intention of expanding the
house in any way, no.
Mr. Willet says.or the garage turning into a sec:ond
dwelling?
Mr. Godfrey responds if either his or hiswi.,e's mother
ever became incapacitated he would like to' think the
possibility existed that..~e could dot.h~ttothe garage if it
was necessary. He would prefer not to'!close that avenue,
thertefore.
Mr. ,.Ke 11 i her, says i t is high I Y un 1 i ke I y they~woul d change
':"tl-al!'gatageinto' a second dwelling with aOarage apartment for
a."int:apacitated parent.
. ..... >.,M.... ,Godfrey says theli.#lng portion could be"on the
. gr:~h.triti floor i .,. it had 'to be. .
Mr. Perry asks where are the accesses to the porch.
Mrs. Godfrey asks if he!s proposing trey removi! the
0deC:k. Says there are two cement pi liars that ar-e ,b.tween the
'foUndation and the wet area. The cost to remove them would
be about $3000.
Mr. Kelliher says they were required to move the house
bac:kbecause of the bike path.
Mr. Perry states that the Town did not force them to move
the structre they did id on their own.
Mrs. Godfrey says after they bought the property they
were informed the bikepath was 'going through.
Dr.' Dunwiddie says he sympathizes with what is going on
here but we would be applying a double standard: Killen had
to pull his driveway out, .Flamm we just about did flips
because they were a few feet closer to the wetland,. Sarvis
wbuld be in cOUrt with its right now if he did 1/10th ,of what
this is. The point is not if you~ould make it much better
with plantings, the point is consistency. We could say yes,
'you can plant all this.. It will make it better. We're sorry
about this misunderstanding that you moved it without
permission and all but what'sgolriO to keep us from having
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Additional Special Conditions page 25
Bruce POQr anQBop, $arv'i~and another developer down the line
doing Qxact;ly't".$atne thing to \.JS lil.ter.
Mr. ,Godfr.i!Y .!iiay~, ~l1ere, have been .i tuations where much
worse has happened and there hasn't bEten a substantial
penalty involved.
Dr. D"",,nwiddie say~, he cfoesn't know a,bOut it yet.
Mr. Gqqfr;filty.saysis 11;- ,the posttion of the QQard that 15'
in the. placement (;)f a h()use is not in substantial c;ompliance?
Dr-.; Du~Wid~.~~",~ys it,' s ~he biggest move he thinks he has
seen that ~asn't'perinitted.
Mr.Wl11e~~.~.,..s ~ith Flamm we made the., taketMe deck
off, add a cO.O.I!r:vil~,ion restr.ic:~ion on the pr-~p.rty.
Mr-. Kelliher say~ d~n't forget they are creating a larger
wetland..
Mrs. Godfrey says tha,t' s the grey area that we want. to
expil"d ,,~hear.a;Jl1at.~ in question any~ay.
Mr. Pe'rfy~aysYP~'r-e not really e'xpanding it,. it's
alrea.,dYil wetJlland. You're just changing it to another type
of. wetland. It's within the wetland boundary.
I
I
Mr. Kf!lliher says Mr. Lentowski says it wC)uld be a
definite improvement to the area with the open pond.
Mrs. Godfr-ey says their engineer felt it was
substantially in compliance to write his latter. And he also
said when he put the footprint on the plan that it wasn't set
in stone. He didn't felt like that had to be the exact
positioning.
Mr. Godfrey Says. he has a copy of the original plan with
proposed appr-oximate lo~ation written right on it. Can't
unders~and how a move of 15' from .an original position that
said proposed approximate location isn't exactly that.
Mr. Willet saYs if 'it was 1.5' further tjlway it probably
wouldn't be that much but unfortunately you moved it toward
the wetland.
Mr. Godfrey says there was no other place to.have'moved
it..
~
Mr. Willet says then it could have been made s~aller or
if you wanted it closer you should have come back to us. I'm
sympathetic too.
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Ad~i tional Special Cornli tions page 26
Mr.. Godfrey says when your under the opinion that what
you're 100kil1g>at'is an approximate ldcation you don't think
in terms of somett'i'ihg you have to rE!app I y for.
_ Mr. Willet looks at our copy of the '87 plans to see if
it says approximata.
Dr. Dunwiddie looks at Mr. Godfrey's pia" and says it
doesn't r-eally say that on the house~' Norlnally with the
plans we get where,',sthereis move",ent of the house is where
they give us a lar-g!rbu i ld'ing.tnvelope and they can move it
around anywhere within tha envelope. '
Mrs. Godfrey says she wishes they had given you an
envelope. We didn't know it was a option.
Mr. GOdfray asks,' whydidn'ttttafit,1"lgirieer tell us it was
neces..ry ~.to do an envelope sO,w~t c:oUldc:hange t,h.'po!ii t ion
of. the house.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he doesn't know, as Hart and Blackwell
do that all the time.
Mr. Godfrey says if theb.oard were to-feel' that it was
nec:essary t.o tear the decks off this h,ouse and they . would
".ve to forego' the amount 01' money they had put into bui.lding
"'them and then the amount of money it would cost to tear it
all down and then applyf'or "the appropriate permit as you're
stating to put it 20' closer so that we could put the. deck
back >onto the house and then have to pay to put it back on,
we're out over $25,000 to $30,000 to end up what we have in
the first place.
Mr. Willet says that's.C!tssuming you would get the
approval. Doesn't think we would be arguing about it if it
was no big deal, therefore that scenario wouldn"t really
exist.
Mr. Wilson says are we considering such a thing?
Mr. Willet says we suggested last time they look at
modifying the decks, tr-y and get things back a little.
Mr. Wilson says with the consideration they might
ultimately file for the same deck?
Mr. Willet says he doesn't think he gave him that
impression.
Mr. Godfrey says he asked if it would be possible to do
that.
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Additional Spe~ial Conditions page 27
Mr. Willet says
unl:ikely thatilf we
it back on again.
i~ i. pos~ible, however I think it highly
mad,," you' tak.. i 1;' Oir "" "ou Id let you put
, Mr. Godfrey says wouldn't it be uP! to DEP to decide on
the applicatioYr whetHer Or notitwot:H be something they
would allow?
M;- . Willet s.ysi t" would be up to
appeal that we w'&ll&ldgo toC:Ou.rta,,!d y
involved.
and if you were to
the t>EP would be
Mrs. Godfrey says there isn't any rort of waiver we could
apply for? .
Mr. Godfrey says.isthereil waiver after the fact that we
could apply for inor-derto keep someth'ing wi th'inthcilt
distance.
Mr. Willet says he s~pposes that is essentially what
you're doing now.
Mr. Perry saY$ the wciythe bureaucratic process would go
is that prese,?tlythey are in non-compliance so the
commission cO,lJ1d issue ,a letter stating they are in non-
c13mplianceand givingalist'ofthing$thatthey would
require them to do' to the bu,i Idinq tHat would make it 'closer
to an acc.eptable compl iance and then once those changes have
been made they could request a certificate of compliance on
the original order.
Mr. Willet says at this point if this is your proposal
you should get some input from thecommissione'rs.,
Ms. McColl asks if they are completely opposed to the
conservation restr-iction.
Mr. Godfrey says he thinks if it were an absolute
foregone conclusion t,hat np other proposal Me came forward
wi th was g01 ng to beacceptable'tte' d hCilve to 10'Ok at it as an
option. He hasn't thought of that unless he thought it was
absolutely the only route to go and he didn't think it was.
If this proposal is unacceptable, he'll have to think of an
alternative.
Mr. Willet says he thinks this is going in the right
direction but is not quite 'enough.
Mr. Godfrey asks if that is the opinion of the entire
board.
Mr. Wi lson says he wasn'. t fami 1 iar with pr-ecedent of
previous cases and wouldl ike to read the record. ,: He
I
T
Addi tional SplitCial Condi1oibns page 28
certainly doesn't see any poin,t
the deck and tHen come back and
thing.
ln requesting them ,to remove
expect us to allow the same
I
i
I
Mr.Ke~liherrep"Clts he thinks the plantings . e a very
viable compromise.
Mr. Willet says .i t' s a st~p in ti'le r ~ght dir.c: ion buti t
would be applying" Cl double standard,baSf!t::lO.Y1 past 'cqes, to
not requir-e more. Frankly he's not 'look'ing for th mto move
the house but he wants a little bit more than som, plantings.
Mr. Kelliher says it isa substantial amount 9."f
plantings.\
Mr. Will~t says he thinks~hatwhat our rec:ommendations
were last time to look at Ihodifyingthe deck, conservation
restriction, plantings.
Mr . GodfreY!i.ays' ,a.r~. Y9u.tellingme that you feel the
Conly alternative i.s allthreethings<you're mentioning? . You
don't feel that PJ"1,'laltyfClr-.OU't..~e,ighs the violation?
Mr. Wi llet says in SQtn~:,ieQ~ip'at~on.
. with in our.;ur- i sdic;ti onto,,'iti1aYii!'ycumove
~here you said Y(Ju,:~,r~,>go!"g $0 put it.
we'rebei ng outrageous her-e.
Reminds him it is
the building bClCk to
And I don't: think
Mr. Wilson says he thinks Dr. Dunwiddie's point about
consistency is the most important part.
Dr. Dunwiddie says that's what frightens him most about
this. No matter what we do short of having you move the
house back is what are we going to do in the future when
somebody comes in and We look at the house and it's 15',20'
closer to the wetland.
Mr. Willet says the la,st case. that was in here and not to
-the degree you are we had' them" r ipthe deck off an~pvt a
conservation r-estriction on the whole property. I" WQVld at
'least consider SQ,ne sort of conservation restriction and
, ,
limited use to. the garage, something like that.
Mrs. Godfrey asks if it is possible to get a restriction
against further building but leave that option open so that
we could have a living space in that garage if we ever needed
it.
Dr. Dunwiddie says the difficulty with that is it~s
impossible for us to enforce.
Mrs. Godfrey says but we'd ha:vet, ,to c:ome before you again
to ti~ into the septic system.
Additional Special Conditions page 29
Mr. Godfrey says with the new zoning laws it's;almost
impossible for us to do anything on that property anyway.
Mr. Perry says his suggestion is to change the-location
of~the door to the deck and go back to the deck that was
proposed in the 1987 plan that didn't include the wrap around
that you have now.
Mrs. Godfrey says it included the wrap around. It just
didn't include that corner. They simply added the corner and
connected the screened in porch with the back deck.
Ms. McColl suggests taking off one corner.
Mrs. Godfrey asks for a continuance for twd weeks.
MOTION: To continue for more information at the
request of the applicant is made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
b. Dooley - 11 Polliwog Pond Rd - SE48-433 (55-422.6)
Mr. Perry says this is for the middle lot. The one that
had the driveway to the pond and we have been waiting for an
as built that showed the location of the driveway that it was
located according to the order and it looks like it was~
MOTION: To issue the Certificate of Compliance is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
c. Hoffman - 16 Tautemo Way - SE48-373 - (83-14)
Mr. Perry says this was requested last spring and we
found that a pier and bulkhead had been added so they filed a
notice for the pier construction and we issued the order a
couple of weeks ago. This order is ready to be signed off.
MOTION: To issue the Certificate of Compliance is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
d. Hoffman - 16 Tautemo Way - SE48-665 - (83-14)
Mr. Perry says we need to get proof of recording before
issuing this certificate.
4. OTHERBUSINESS
j)I,...!",~,."" .~...
Addi~ional Special Condi~ions page 30
a. Anapol - Pennsylvania Ave. - SE48-192 - (60.3.1-17)
Mr. Willet says i;he applicant isn't going to be in this
evening.
Mr. Erichsel1, an abutter, asks'. to_ake a few comments.
Says as he had called several of the commissioners as well as
Mt.. Perr.y, YE)U ..11 ar,eilware that he went out.,and did that
without coming in here and that S.turday,he went out again so
he's more or less ignoring the fact that...we all thought it
was onholaa"d he gQes out and says the heck with you guys,
I'm doing it again. The Smith's Point Association had a
cfiscu..sion out there and you should have rec:eived maybe 13
letters. All of us would like them read on your tape for the
record.
Mr. Perry says we have received .some letters.
Mr.. Willet says he would just as soon wait until we have
both parties here before we get into this. If you have
comments that will be fine.
Mr. Erichsen says I'm the representative of all the
people who are writing the letters. Becau$e they, didn't put
aPS, please read them, I'm to tell you they would all like
them read in~o the meeting.
Mr. Perry says he will get that organized for the next
meeting.
Mr. Willet says he has some trouble With reading 13
letters. They are in the file, it's PUbliF record. If we go
to court or something theY1are going to ,be there and are
going to be made note of'. I can list who ,'sent a letter, if
they are opposed or for the project.
Mr. Erichsen says he believes they wo ld generally go
along with that but what everyone agreed ey didn't want it
just said letters have come in. They wou d like their name
noted and a brief comment. Also one lett r .from Mr. Hontoon
who is one of the chief members of the as ociation along with
Mr. Pappageorge and himself. He believes you should read Mr.
Hontoon's letter because he's one of the eneral chief's.
You may want to read Mr. Pappageorge's and his as well. Has
four points to make. 1) On Saturday Mr. Anapol and Mr. Leddy
were out there and they went up, right past his driveway,
around to the right and got stuck and you can see that the
sand has almost totally rebuilt the dune~ow. Without dune
grass which it was ~here my picture showett the big cut it's
about 2' from where it was. So how he's going to maintain an
open rQad, which we have no Objection, none of us have any
objection to a footpath that goes where a road is and he can
do the same. We wish him luck but to blatantly say that he
..
I
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Additional Special Conditions page 31
can puli a fire truck in, an ambulance in is all but
ridiculous.
Mr. Perry says he doesn't think the commission has ever
said that. That's what he said he wants to do.
Mr.. Erichsen saY5he hasn't heard.
Mr. Willetsays:we were waiting to see if he was going to
c:ome up with 50mealternatives.
Mr. Kelliher- says an alternative route.
Dr. Dunwiddiesays how long are we going to wait.
Mr. Erichsen says it is very slow in getting any
i nformatiory from th~In,. .. ". It seems he, has done anyth i ng and
li!verY'bhlNJ to_put/'i;,t'o"f'~ Point #2 were the letters. Point
#3, can this boardpu.t alim~t'or a hold on any additional
work while yourawaiti.nglnf'ormation. Wh~'s to say next
Saturday he doesn't 'try it again.
."" "
Mr. Willet says hec"n ~ow~atever he wants; we can limit
himbt.t if hewantstog.'t the<bulldozers out he'll do it
anyway. :'fhlhkswe've;)..tlfjitlt1airly clear- that we don't want
him tc) dO'ciU"lything out,t".re. Last Saturday Mr. Perry and
Mr. Kelliher were out and ,said don't do it. I don't know how
much clearer we can make it to Mr. Anapol.
I
I
Mr. Er i chse,n s~ys. they wou I dn 't be surpr i sed if in a week
or two Mr. Anapol tried it again. I hope the board is aware
of that.
Mr. Willet says then I think we'll be at the end of our
tether and we'll take it from there.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks when he was asked to stop Saturday did
he stop.
Mr. Kelliher says yes, he agreed to only truck in sand to
put around thef,oundation' of the house. from Massachusetts
Avenue, he did not touch th. dune; and he went out there
Sunday and there were several sets of footprints over the
brow of the dune but the tractor never got any farther than
when it gotstut:k Saturday.
1
Mr. Erichsenisays when .it does blow in, drivers in
veh iel es go i ngto$m~,~h's Po i ntsee ,the br-each in. the dune
and '0 up 'and turn'r.~nd i:n the dUne grass and get stuck.
It's inviting. I.,:there aT1ythirij~wecan do such as the DEP
put up a sign.
Ms. McColl says ,the DPW can't touch it.
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Additional Special Conditions page 32
Mr. Erichsen says can he put an8 1/2 x ~1 and stick it
on a 2 X 4--something to keep vehicles from riving up there.
Mr. Willet says on your property.
Mr. Pel"rysaysyou already did that and he applicant got
a little bit irritated.
Mr. Perry says he th i nk~' there arE! a .coup I eOf,dead end
signs; if they don't see a nugh dead end sigp what's a sign
on the dune going to do.
I
Mr. Erichsen continues <Po"int*4): what is the
commission's general intention. The neighbors would like it
$tabilized. We'have no objection to a footpath to the end of
Rhode Island, across Pennsylvania, whatever he'wants to do on
his property. We ar'~ objecting to vehicle access and
maintenance of a driveway through that area.
Mr. Willet says we would like him to stabilize the area.
Mr. Erichsen says and Just a concern of his own, where
there is. 18U 'of sandin his own driveway, I'm assuming an
Enforcement Order to restore that dune Dr whatever go'es
through will push it back and hopefully plant some dune grass
there but if this is not resolved by spring without
committing yourselves what am I to do with the sand blowing
eastward.
Commission agrees it moving his way,t-estoring the dune
will merely slow.it down but it's going to end up on your
driveway eventually.
Mr. Kelliher says Saturday he didn't notice any sand in
his driveway.
Mr. Erichsen say$S rot in his driveway, about half way
down i'1 front of his house. ... Continue~ my concern. was to hear
from the board; you're not very happy with what he has done.
There has been no statement made.
Mr. Willet says he thinks it has been very clear,
extremely clear. We're not happy.
Mr. Erichsen says the thirteen neidhbors. and myself are
not clear as to whether you ar-e going to permit him vehicular
access.
Mr. Willet says we keep"s~9g.sting a f()()~path and he
keeps coming up with alter-."a-ti"es. We'retryirig to exhaust
these alternatives, then we'lL..
I
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.... .
Addi-tional Special Condi~ions page 33
Mr. Erichsen says you're basicallylimitinifhim to what
you said a footpa~h.
Mr. Wils~~ says nothing he's presented has been
acceptable.
Mr. Erichsen asks if there haS .beenany indi,c:a~ion he
will be here on the 21st.
I
I
Mr. Perry says he told him. he has to be here on the 21st.
Mr. Erichsen says he was given certified letters to be
here in August--it's November..
br. Dunwiddie says thisg\.Jy's got a legitimate complaint,
think' ,s i tl 5 absurd.
Mr. Perry says at the sa",e 1:,ime we've got anobligatipn.;
we told him to get alti!rnati".s..'
Commissioners discuss tt'u!'isstJe.
Mr~,Wilsonsays he thinks."it'simpor-tal'lt tha.t we get a
commi1r",'e-nt; from him on p~Rer-in tn. way .of'a ptan.
M~. Willet sugge$ts th~a.i&'Cc.l$sion end.
~. '. .' :'" ,:-"i.i.,",..'.:':,.......' ,. .',:, .",< ,,'~':.:.'
b; Santa Rita Trust - 22apOlpis Rd - SE48-630 (26-22.4)
Present for theappli~antis Attorn~y Rachael Hobart for
Attorney Melissa Philbrick. '
Attorney Hobart says there is a letter from Attorney
Philbrick and new plaY'l$. S~vs nOW that they've put the sink
in and have made it a dwelling per the new Building
Department regulations, and they have the approval, they have
to meet with, the building code requirements of a secondary
dwelling even though there's no intent to use it as a
dwelling which means they neE!d>~ secondary means of egress.
They ,have run ,an outside stairway from one of the balconies
that was cantilever-ed. The garage doors cannot be used as
the secondary means of egress because a child cannot open
them.
Mr. Perry says that's .not entirely accurate as he a$ked
tOday. 1heycapal ~OW.;door to be put inside t,he g-.rage as
long as it's not biggertl1an 4' wide.
Attorney Hobar t$aY~,~PR;r-entJ ~..,..tll"".C;t'\it~c,turall y they
don',twant to. do, anY~~~;~91:9;t'h~id~9r::?i~.o.thiSis.wtla,t is,
bElting proposedwhich:'is;'aminor mcKfif'l~atior:* of p-aragrapneo
of your Order.
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i
Additio".al Special Conditions page 34
Dr. Dunwiddie says architec~urally they don't want to do
anything to the door?
I
Mr. Willet says it keeps growing, personally he would
rather not see any more.
Mr. Wilson says our restriction was that we didn't want
it to be used as a habitation but ~hatthe.building inspector
is requiring will make it perfectly legal as a habitation.
Attorney Hobart says this is
in the zoning code that once you
automatically bec~me a dwelling.
it as a habitation.
the problem with the change
put a sink in you
Then have no intent to use
I
\
Mr. Perry says we allowed it as a modification to be a
dwelling with the stipulation that it shall not be used for./
habitation. It is only a dwelling under Building Department
purposes; can't sleep there or eat. Just have ~ room or a
bathroom.
Mr. Wilson says one of us is going to have to stay in
that building all ,the time.
Mr. Willet says he doesn't particularly like it and other
CommissiOflers agree with that feeling.
Attorney Hobart says can we continue it, then, and we'll
see what we can come up with.
MOTION: T~ continue for additional information is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
c. Polpis Bikepath Wetland Replication - Planning Bd.
Mr. Perry says one piece of property at the end of
WauwinetRoad is ours, there .are about four or five parcels
and there's a ridge of upland there and the Planning Board is
proposing a large replication area there.
Mr. Kelliher says he thinks that would be very apropos.
Dr. Dunwiddie says it's actually a very nice piece of
land, as a upland.
Mr. Willet suggests Foundation or Audubon land be used.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he discussed that the other day and
sLlggested.since they werealr.ady replicating miles from the
wetlands anyway why are we bothering to replicate along the
, .
1
Additional Special Conditions page 35
Airport or at the DPW. Doesnit see why we should be using
prime conservation land for w~tland's replication. Think's
it is an inappropriate use of conservation land--especially
our posture in wetlands' replication in every other case
that's come before us we do everything but thumb our noses at
it and then says oh, sure, you can use the only piece of
commission conservation property on therefor- wetlands'
replication.
Mr. Perry says is that a motion?
MOTION: To not allow the conservation property owned I
by the Conservation Commission to be u~ed as wetland
repl ication area for the Polpis Bikepath is made and I,
seconded.
UNANIMOUS
d. Emergency Regulations: Discussion
Mr. Kelliher recommends we use Mr. Perry as our agent.
MOTION: To designate the Administrator agent for the
Commission to administer the emergency regulations.
Mr. Perry review,S the permits he has i~suedto date and
says lie would like to develop a policy which reflects the
commission's wishes. Briefly if it's gone, it's gone when it
comes to beaches, dune restoration and banks. Vou don't want
to see heavy machinery going out there and sand trying to
rebuild a beach and dune, is that the commission's general
po 1 icy?
Mr. Willet says for a general policy he thinks' that is
good.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he's trying to think of specifics.
Mr. Perry ,says if someone has authority to put their dune
back that's fine; what he's talking about is like at Shimmo
or down Dionnis Beach the banks are gone, or Wauwinet, Dow;
and Richards, and Jackson.
Dr. Dunwiddle says he can understand about bulkheads but
he's puzzled about dunes. We spend all our time trying to
get people to build up dunes.
Mr. Perry says he's talking about building dunes
overnight. He doesn't'seeany problem with them putting up
snow fence and planting beaeh4;irass but what he doesn't think
the .commisslon wants is forthe.m to go out and bring in 40
truckloads of be.ach sand, pi Ie it up in front of a house, and
then put a snow fence up. Would rather see a low tech
II"""
., .
Additional Special Conditions page 36
approach because the damage from br i ng i ng all tha t mach i nery
will be far greater than the dune's protection.
Mr. Wil~bn says in a case of someone like Plukas or Dow
they would have to bring it in in wheelbarrows.
Mr. Perry says the position he is taking and he assumes
if people don'~likewhat ~hey~ear from me they'll come to
you, is that if it's gone if it's a bank or dune that a low
tech approach snow fence is the way to go about it. Not to
bring in heavy equipment.
Mr. Willet says that sounds good.
Mr. Perry says there are three levels. One is send us a
letter and do the work. After I get the letter I will
inspect to make sure it is level 1. The second level is they
write us a letter and they get emergency certification.
That's for minor projects, less than 50% damage. Th~ third
level is you have to file a notice. What they can do 1'5
temporary r~pairs to the bulkheads, for example, then file a
notice for replacement. For Lily's on Hulbert Ave. he
allowed them to bring in fill; Fife he allowed eith~rpu,t
sandbags and backfill to protect the house or put a plyw.ood
bulkhead till they filed a notice to replace the entire
bulkhead. Most of the bulkheads on Hulbert if they were
damaged a little they need to be replaced because of th~ age.
The decking for Mike Bachman's dock he is allowingtobe:hand
replaced and gave him a permit. The one in Quaise he sees as
different from an unprotected bank. The waves came over- the
top of the bank and ate the bank away. Is allowing Mrs.
Berrian to fill in the triangle that's created from the top
of the bulkhead to the bank and replant that. The bulkhead
is basically the beach and the bank and you're just filling
in behind it. If the bulkhead wasn't there he would have not
recommended they replace it if a fast way and that they move
the house.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if there is some limit.
Mr. Willet says what Dr. Dunwiddie is talking about is
like Richards where you have 40' between the two anq we are
not going to let him fill in like at Berrian.
Mr. Perry says what we could allow Richard to do is if we
allow him a return then the return could be fill~d in to the
top of the bulkh~ad and the unprotected bank would stay the
same. The Berrian one is on top of the bulkhead back to the
bank. Draws a diagram showing the difference between 'the
two.
Dr. Dunwiddieasks what about Jackson.
r
... .
,
Additional Special Conditions page 37
,
Mr. Perry says I don't have to decide that one b
they are gOlngto. file a Notice and YDu''Will havetol
on that one. Continues in addition if they f;ilea 1\1,
the commission determines that replacing for exampl.
Jackson bulkhead is not in the best interests of the
protection act we don't have to approve it accordin
Way these emergency regulations are written. That's
picking and Choosing so they will have to come to th
commission. Wh.re do you stop, at a 10' bank or a 4 · bank.
Do you let Sankaty Beach Club fill in their bank'? ""Ie'll have
a hole in the middle of the island with all the sand on the
beach.
cause
decide
tice if
the
wetlands
to the
why I' m
I
Commissioners agree with Mr. Perry's policy and decision.
Mr. Perry brings up one other item with regard to the
work being done for the DEP to replace the culverts on
Madaket Road. Yesterday he spoke with the contractor and the
ASf!tistant Superin'tendent of DEP about the fact that they are
putting fill in the wetlands to get the machinery around.
The silt fence had blown after the storm and they never
replaced it. He spoke to them about it and they replaced the
silt fence at high tide so when the tide went out there waS' a
g!1i1P between the.water and the silt.fence. Today he noticed
that in removing the sheet steel t6 let the water equalize
dirt was put on the outside so it was in the pond. They
assured me that they would not allow it to wash into the pond
but when he passed again he found they had allowed it to wash
in the creeks. Suggests an enforcement order or a fine for
the construction company, D8.C Construction. Their water
quality permit states clearly that when they pumping out or
draining that the water goes into an area with a silt fence
and not down the creeks because you are polluting the water
and I talked to them and gave them two attempts to fix it and
they are in violation. Suggests the commissioners may want
to look at it.
Commissioners agree to meet with Mr. Perry at 7:30 a.m.
tomor-row mor-ning.
6. CORRESPONDENCE
7. MINUTES: for October 10, 24, 31, 1991
MOTION: To accept the minutes for October 10, only,
is made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
B. SILLS TO BE PAID
9. FIELD INSPECTIONS: t1ondiJY, NovelDber IB, 1991,4:00
, 1,
I
-"...,~"17
17 -
- ....
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Addi tional Special ConcU tions page 3D
MOTION': To adjourn at 10:20 p.m. is made and;
seconded.
UNANIMOUS
,-
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. ...