HomeMy WebLinkAbout1991-10-24
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Town of Nantucket
,. ..
Conservation Commission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts. 02654
The meeting was called to order at 7:04 p.m~ in the Large
Group 'Inst1"'uction~oomot',the Nantucket High Sehoel.
Commissioners present were William Willt!t, 4aura,:Hussey, Peter
Dunwiddie, Henry Wasierski, Diane McColl, Daniel Kelliher, and
Peter Wilson. Also present were Bruce Perry.: Administrator, and
Lucia Wyeth, secretary.
A. COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS FROt1 PRESS AND PUBLIC
Mr. Wasier-ski asks if anyone ('applied to. the Cammission to.
put ,:the posts in ,at SesacMacha' Pond. 'I
Members review di.scussion at a previous meeting with Mr.
Jet't' Willett during which the ca_lssian 'toldnim he could
proceed and file a determination ,i!it'ter the t'act. ,;The purpase
was to keep people from driving around the perimeter of the
pond.
Mr. Wasierski cantend. Palpis Road is a Town Rightot' Way
and should not be blocked by the commissia1't; t'urther, the
Audubon access is private property and the Town has no right
to block it.
Dr. Dunwiddie says there is an o.ngo.ing discussion as to.
whether the greatpo.nds are private prapertyar,whether they
belong to the praprietars oft.....Town of NaAtucket and it' the
po.nd is Mass. Audubon's they are happy to. take it but thinks
they might have an argumertt; sa the Town is putting up the
posts on either their property or our property, depending
upon who you talk to.
B. PUBLIC HEAR1NGS
1. Richards... 25 E.Tristram Ave.,- SE48-609 .... (31-1}
MOTION: To continue'f&t>theapplicant's request is
made and seconded . .
UNANIMOUS
2. Poor - Quidnet-SE48-635 (20-49, 50.2, 50.3; 21- 58, 119)
3.., Paor - Quidnet - SE48-637H1H-122,llB,a,
119. 1 9 11.9 . 2 )
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Meeting Minutes for October 24, 1991
Page 2
:~J;O~rid ~~c~~~:~te at the applicant's request is
UNANIMOUS
4. Dunham - Tristam Aven e - SE48-666 - (31-02)
MOTION: To conti
made and seconded!
. ,
UNAN IMousl
5. Bordes - 12 Oakland Jt- SE48~444 -(59.4-187-192, etc.)
at the applicant's request is
Mr. Perry says we have received a letter from Mr. Bordes
inviting the commission to walk,thraugh the house and count
the bedrooms. He says he has seven. He will set it up. with
Kevin Kalman and would like a commissioner to join them.
MOTION: To continue 'for additianal information is
made and seconded.
6. HaWkes.... Esther Island - SE48-669 - (36.2.3-97)
'F>r~!$!l'\t far the applic;a.nt is Mr. Marks , Attarney Arthur
Reade~"'Mr. Je'ff Blackwell.
Mr. Perry says we have been waiting for a locatian and a
finalplfln.
Mr.Slackwell presents the final plan. The finish first
floaris.4' ab"ove existirig"grade. It is .qui te 'flat in the
area whet'e the house is.prO'Pased. Originally the'engineer
had considered concrete piers' but feels that timber pile
structure would be a lat more secure.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks for an explanatian as to the
permanence of timber versus cancrete.
Mr .Bli3ckweU says the 'footers 'for concrete piers are
only sa deep but timber pile is driven down about IS'. It's
a more eKpensivemethodbuti,nan area subject to coastal
storm 'flowage is mare stable arid permanent.
Dr. Dunwiddie questians the use Of the term permanence
aut there; in ~en years what do we want to cart away, timber
or concrete pasts.
Mr:. alackwell reviews the waivers they have requested 'for
the septic, which is back 110' from the top 0.1' the bank. and
}a w.iv~ir" 'for construction iM an area subject to coastal storm
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Meeting ,Min4tes f9r October 24, 1991
Page 3
flowage~ 8X~e~act allow recag~tr~ction and maintenance on a
barrier beach. They ar~ keeping it as far from the north
shore as possible. Notes they also have a 20' zoning
setback.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if they cannot get a waiver from
zoning.
Attorney Re.~.. saY.l?9~~Hbly but the distcmce involved is
small and ti~et .l~it, w#~~".ttQ1d up., the pf"aject a gr'"eat
deal. In aCtClltion, s\.lburtiu~nzoning is not very important in
this area.
Mr. Marks notes the erosion seems to came from the sauth
more than the north part 0.1' the island.
Commis~ibn agrees that all things considered this is a
r~a~on;abl'7':I proposal.
MOTION: To clase the'hearing and draft an order is
made and,seconded.
UNANIMOUS
7. Ducksholm Nominee Trust - 30 Shawl<emo Road, (27-2)
Presentfo~ the applicint is Mr. Lester Sm1t'h.' Says he
took a look at the plier at Wauwi net and at Taylor's' based on
the st,.l(jJgesti~nofth. Mari", Department at the last meeting
and ha!l mo~i.'fiedtheproposal such that the fixed portion of
the pier w~uld be in the intertidal zope; the seasonal
portion wOl,Jld be from the in.tertidal zone out. That would
respond to the Marine Dep.rt,..ent's issues regClrding
shellfish. Presents new plan. The length is'1;he,same. They
still need the infarmation on shell'fish from the Marine
Department.
Mr. Perry notes the 'floating section sits on the bottom
for a lang portian of the day between low and mid tides.
Mr. Smith st~tes that it would happen twice a day and
suggests an alternative post type support with stops could be
used.
Mr. Perry aSks about thesp~c:ing of the 'floats to be used
relat i ve to spac ih9i n thet:u;tardwCll k.
rwIr. Smith, s.ysth~y wOuld'devel,oP Cl desig.n to. keep the
spacin9 sothata. person co\,Hdnot fall through. The profi Ie
is initial and will be mo,d~.,.Jep;~Men th.V get the bo.ttom
survey in'formation. Says the o'wner presently maars three
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Meeting Minutes for October 24, 1991
Page 4
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boats in this vicinity and plans to tie them to the proposed
dack.
Mr. Willet says he would like to hear from the Ma~ ne
Department about disruption of the battom.
Ms.Creightan says another cansideration within th loial
regulations is for land under th.,ocean having total
unobstructed access for' recre~tional' fishing, shellfi hing
and boating as well as the con"ner;~iai activities. Th s area
is partitularly important 'far ~aIling where boats ~om~ close
to the shore. The yacht club has traditionally used ~hat
area for running races. Is a key location for m~ltip~e uses
in that sect ion. I
Dr. Dunwiddie says that is SO' o'f solid structure.
Ms. McColl says it is going to have a great impact on the
area ,more, than three boats maared.
-Mr. Wilson says it will prabably encourage mare people
wanting to do the same thing.
'. Ms. Creightpn s~y..s most o'f the shortil ine is priva~ely
awned and there is a'cpqt.ntiat for this type aT sln'ghffami ly
r'~sidentialpier act.ivi ty to increase. Says the scenic view
bec:pme$ a consideration.
Dr. Dunwiddie$ayshe'fee~sit .is somewh~t mi!ileading to
keep asking the appli(:"r'\t.,'~rredesignsas he thinks the '.
int~nt 0.1' the Town Me,tin9~()te, (to prahibit piers into. ,the
oce'an far two years) isc:le~r;the. Tawn has indicated they
don't want more pier'sinth,harbor.His intention at least
at this time is to go with>t~~ Tqwn Meet'ing vote and he
doesn't think another pieris'warranted until we get some
guidelines 'from the Harbor Management Committee as to just
what it is the town wants in terms of allowable access ,to the
water. Thinks the COmmission,is being remiss in aSl<ing for
revising o'f plans when I, at least, am not interested in
anything you can came up with other than what's already
there.
Ms. McColl says she agrees.
Mr. Wi llet says he th inks the last me.~ti ng' s 'focus was a
clear indication to the applicant that this was so. If the
app},icai'"l,tstill wants, to. provide'!.<:t~itt,C?r-al information and
try and sway you, obviously toni911~f~;fJI..eting'hasn.tdone
much to change your opini~m. But^ 1"\~,Ctf1~nks' Mr . Smith does
understand the tone 0.1' the who 1 e me4ie'thlg.
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Meeting Minutes for October 24, 1991
Page 5
Mr. Smith. 5
was a lot of co.
heard t'rom the
des i gn on t,he 1J
might find it a
y$ h.dQ~s. Adds at the last meeti'l.9 there
cern about shellt'ish in partiCl1'lar and he
arine Department if they modified their
nesof,the,Wauwinet anq Taylar piers they
ceptable.
Mr .Wi l~et $..ays t.Me Marine Department may t'inctit
acceptable but . thinks'as Dr. Dunwiddie suggested he
doesn't know as'this cqlllmi$sian willt'ind it a~cept~ble.
I
Ms. McColl Jsays <aha wouldn't find the scenic
consideration acceptable any time of, year. It's an unspoiled
section of thelshareline and she doesn't think there should,
be a pier on it.
Mr .S!mi th says you doh~ve regul~t.ions that ,;.tlfe' re trying
to meet: scenic view, land cantaini'l'W she,llfish.l.,.nd under
the acean. And land containing shellfish is'the resaurce
that seems to be ot' most concern.
Mr. Perry says it's.:an important one but 10.Cally t,.lnder
the by-laws there's recreation and he thinks it has an impact
on recreation any time ot' .the year.
Mr. Wilscmsays how will this impact walking down the
intertidal zone.
Mr. Smith says if that is a concern they can design a
structure to walk aver the pier which is typically dane in a
lot of coastal communities.
Ms. McCall says that is just going to be more of a
structure.
Dr. Ounwiddie says ~ur notice5ays in regard. to the
aft'ects on rec:reationalinterests the project is lacated on
private praperty anc:l wi:ll not impact publ ier.creation.
Doesn't think that isright--it is public: property and will
impact recreation.
Mr. Perry says the applicant acknowledged at the last
meeting that was a misstatement becj:iuse some of it isin
state owned or government owned land.
Mr. Smith concurs and says also the public has right of
fishing and navigation through the intertidal zone. They
stand corrected on that statement.
Mrs. Hussey asks if the pier is absolutely necessary
since they are getting along fJne with th. c:lingtly now.
Meeting Minutes for Octaber 24, 1991 Page 6
Mr. Smith says his client is interested in putting in a
dock.
Mr. Willet asks if there is any other int'armation we
want.
Mr. Perry notes we do nat yet have a t'ile number.
MOTION: To continue t'ora t'ile number is made and
seconded.
UNANIMOUS
* 8. Robi Blumenstein - Squam Road - SE48-673 - (21-120)
MOTION: To continue at the applicant's request is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
* 9. T,edGodt'rey.... 325 Polpis Raad .,. SE48-674-'" (25-40)
Present are Mr. and Mrs. Godt'rey. Mr. Willet suggest'ii
the disct.is!Sion on this hearing t'or the pand 'be put aside and
fi,r$tthfil:Certificate ot' Compliance t'or the h.ousetie
resolv.d.
Mr. KeH 1 fher abstains frQm the discussian and the vote.
MOTION: To continue for additional int'armation is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
* 10. Wiley ~ 39 Baxter Road - f49-10 & 49.2.3-4)
MOTION: To continue at the applicant's request is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
c. REGULARttEETING
1. REQUEST FOR DETE~I.NATlON
a.. Borchert - 14~y.rnt Swamp Lane - (56-2)
Mr. Perry says this is simply a ma'tter of signatures.
*
b. Frazier.... 888.4'0 Baxter Rd
'('49-05, 06 )
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Meeting Minutes for October 24, 1991
Page 7
Mr. Perry says the' abutters have been notified and we lean
now issue a positive d~termination which was his
recommendation back in August.
I
MOTION: To issue a positive determination is mad.
and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
*
Mr. Willet reads the t'ield inspection report.
I
Mrs. Weinman says her clients the DiMartina's purchased
the property a year ago and it was apparent at the time that
vehicular access for the beach was on tMeir property.
Presents photographs of the area showing the path which has
been dr-iven an for the last 10 years t'or access to the beach.
The prQPosal is to plant approximately 225 Rasa Ruga~a along
the path area where they currently exist and also to plant
beach grass along the path area and to close it ot't' with the
snow fencing as it was. previously. She spoke to the
Fennell's who. awned the property for aver 25 years and they
indicated the fence has blocked it ~ft' until abaut 10 years
--ago. They came back one spring and the fence was down and
they first noticed people were accessing the beach. They
tried to put it up on ane accasion and t'inally decided they
didn't want to. deal with it. Her clients are mainly
concerned about the amount ot' erasian that has occurred in
the area although feel it is private property. They want to
bring it back to where it was. What has arisen as a result
of this is access to the beach. She has spent some time with
Jeff Willett ot' DEP and with Anne Cannors 0.1' Parks &
Recreatian and there is no intent to move the swings. There
was same discussion at one point about turning the swings so
there could be vehicular access there. After conversations
with Mr. Willett and Ms. Cannors and also. some af the
'Sconset residents it was decided that we do nat want to do
that. There are two means ot' access on town property to the
beach at this time. One is on Low Beach Road and the other
is in the Codfish Park area on Jet't'erson Street. We're
suggesting that this is adequate for people to enter the
beach it' they want to enter in vehicles but we're requesting
we be able to begin this praiect. It is on private property.
We feel it is in the best interest of the area.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if the other vehicle access locations
are cur.rently being used and what area is to be blocked off.
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.Meeting ninutes far Octaber 24, 1991 Page 8
AttorneY Weinman shows plan ana says she under.stands they
are c:urrentr." bel'ng useQ and according to Mr. Wi1n~i:t vetHcle
access is adequate. Re.as a letter for the record t'rom
Christof)h~rHolland, a .'Sconset rE!sidEtnt, in favor 0.1' the
project "'to . p~eserve the.Ql.Jnes and"'restrict beach access to
vehicles; Asks i'f ther. are any questions she can answer.
Mr. Willet says it seems fairly simp'le and straight
forward.
Mr. Perry a5ks if there is a replanting plan.
Attorney Weinman presents the plan and commissioners
review'.
'"
Attorney Arthur Reade says he .nd Mr. Lea Smith ot' naylor
Consulting have been engCiged by abutters of the property an
the other side of Gully Rdad, Wil'liam and Lynn Silverman, who.
have asked them to. review and monitor the.pracess and
~epresen~~their interes~s.They are concer~edfirst that the
plans i su~"it ted are not rea 11 y . adequate. to ..ShOW the work tha't
is propa$ed. Furthermore, there is no. quetition that the area
involved is a wetland resource area. Daesn"t see haw yau can
make a.d,termination other than the fact the project will
a1 teran.rea: si ncethi! work is proposed to be done in i,t,
a.ndot.. 'th~t'basiS feels. Notice would be required so the
natureCl'fthe work 'and in~nner in which it will be done and
type of equipment to be. used is specified in an appropriate
Orderoft9nditions if, in fact, there is adequate support
far doin~~the proposed~ork.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks what the problem is; we never had
anyone oppose work to S~abilize dunes"be'f'ore. Is there
something else going on here we daY"l't know about?
Attorney Reade Says they don't know what's going on. All
we Mave are these plans which aren't dicnensiorled.
Attorney Weinman says this is all that-'s going on; Mr.
Sullivan and Mr. Vincent are here tonight from the landscape
company if you want to .ask them any quest ions. If you want
them to be' very spec:ifH:' and tell you anything that you feel
is not on the plans, they'd be.happy to do so. Does not
think a Notice is appropriate in'this. Everything that's
going on is laid out before you.
Or. Ounwiddie asks 'wMat the Ct'ensity af the bea.ch grass is
to be.
Representative sa'Ys they have the aptian~f 3 different
sizes and' types of plant material. It' it was one gallon
potted material the spacing would be 12' on center, if bare
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Meeting Minutes for Octaber 24, 1991
Page 9
root, w(.)~h'j be 6" on center to get ~n even distribution in
; tMe pathways .so it would grow toget er.
Dr. Dunwiddie says his only cq, ent is tMat having seen
lots of .and dune stabili~ation on f he island from all
degr~esot' intensity there's alat f overkill and if you're
just trying to block off a road, u less you have it
ad~quatelY t'enced, everything yau'v planted ~ill be driven
over anyway; he would be more inter'sted in just some
adequate snow fencing. Chances are' there is so much beach
grass on e.ither side of the road iry a cauple of years it's
going to stabilize itself.
Attorney Weinman says th~ plan lis to adequately fence it
and to do the planting as well.
Mr...Wilsson asks why the plans indicate fence sections
will'be'added.
.. .. .,<t:\tt",rhey . Weinman says there i ss. a gap there now but it was
~lJ"t6,rEt"previouSIY and they are replacing the t'ence
:sec:t 10 ~. .'
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.t'lr~;W~$ien~ki saysl .think that's town t'ence on town
proP,t~y~ ..... th i'nks .the cOJ..lnty raad b9unds are beh i nd the fence;
aSt(i$,~i;~f''''*taey wi 1 ( provide locations of coun1;y road bounds.
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,:,~~~~rrey WeiO{Jlan says the split rail fence is an her
cli_".i'property; doesn't think that is the issue before you.
Theisssue is whether this requires a Natice.
Mr. .Wi llet says he>doesn' t know how impartant that
information is; the bounds is rEtally Planning's concern.
Dqr-ot/1Y Vollan,pt'ram 'Sco....set says she is here having
hear,d' that it was propasedta move. the swings. Adds the
other cancerns of whether the t'ence is an town land and the
real:intertt of the. project are important to. know as well as
what}'t;:'u~pment is to be uSed.
Mr. Willet says initially there wa5, some concern about
al teri""g the swing set to allow vehicu.lar traffic in the town
owne~.ar~a and the DPWand Parks and Rec decided not to
change that.
Attorrey Wei nmalo $CilYS sp.e Un~erst.ands the concern, they
talked with enough people tOday and the swings will not be
maved.
The l~ndscape representa t i ve sayS.. it wi 11 all be dQne by
hand..
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Meeting Minutes far October 24, 1991
Page 10
Mr. Smith says he understands
dec ision';there are faur optians.
act than.itf'Srtatgoing 'toal ter.
is des:igned1:o alter the resource
under a request you reach a
It' it is not -subject to the
It sounds 1 ike'this d.-se
area to. build up the d~ne.
Mr. Willet says we've gone through this befare and have
issued a subject to but will nat alter knowing that perhaps
technically it is altering. The options are limited'.
.
Mr. SmithsaysW0ul'dn't it make more sense to go with a
notice and then have everything det'ined.
Mr. Willet says if it wert! a structure. This is how the
commissianhas Viewed it in the pas1: if it has be.n
plantings.It's a good point, th.re'snotan appropriate
option really to chaose t'rom so we've tried to do what we
can.
Mr. Wilson says the driving alters.
Mr. Duffy, 'Sconset resident and president of"> the Civic
Association speaks on behalf of the eKecut.ive committee and
individually. Says their main concern is the impac.t on the
swings and theeKisting beach and play area.andthat there be
absolutely no change in that whatsoever. The second concern
is all the more substantiated by Mr. Reade's presence and
there se..$ to. be moregaing on that itappur$. There seems
to be an undercurrent--wauldlike to know first of all abaut
the buildability. Does this have an et'fect on the building
in that lower area ot' Mr. DiMartino's.......wbuld it have a
subsequent later et't'ect on the ability ~a build dawn there.
Attorney Weinman says she doesn't think this is an
appropri.te convert$atian. This is a request for a dune
restaration project. She is representing to you that this is
all we are asking for. Her client has no. interiti-on 0.1'
building there, never will, never has, if he ever did
obviously he wauld have to. go through all kinds of" things.. I
would ask you to address what's before you.
Mr. Kelliher responds to Mr. Duffy's question saying this
does not incrt!ase the buildability. To. rebuild a caastal
dune wi!! decrease the buildability.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he does not know whether he would
agree with that; daesn't think it will affect it an. way ar
another. It's a coastal dune, it was bet'ore, it will be
,ilifiter.. It's an area of shifting sand and' therea,.e
'<regulations that are currently applied to it and he thinks
they will be applied whether they stabilize it or nat.
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Meeting Minutes t'or October 24, 1991
Page 11
Mr. Dut'1"y says;;thlltY have a concern in the village; is not
opposing this; doe$nnotwant to be confrontational and is
trying to have tt,is<bea f.riendly thing. He just t'inds there
is something peculiar gaing an and is trying to get a handle
an it.
Ms. Crei.ghton Q')t1$ the request before you is a pasitive
attempt at reestablishing a dune; per~inent questions have
been answered and thit\ks the determinatian is adequate to
address the project.
\
Dr. Dunwiddiem.;aJ<es a motianfar a positive determination
but nat necessary t:t;tfile a notice; adds we have issued such
things in the past that it is actually an improvement 0.1" the
area.
Mr. Reade asks what the exemption is.
Mr. Kelliher says it is to restore dunes that have been
destn~y.q'tby: vehicUts.
Mr. Reade asksl,f' that is in the regs or by-law.
Mr. Perry says he' suggest.s we check either #2 or *4.
Mn.Wi ll~_t saY$'~rwe' re doing this one on *4 though.
,
MOTION; TO;.~$sUe apo$itive determination as s\,Jbject
to but is ~-=,"'necessa,.y to. file a notiCe of intent.
UNANIMOUS
*
')i
d. Cross - 37 Eastan Street - (42..1.4--24)
Mr. Willet read_ the field inspection repart.
Mr. Perry notes,tt,ere were t~ .i,n$pectians. Thetest
holes were dug on the second day when he wt!nt out with Mr.
Glenn Wills and Dr. Dunwiddie.
Mr..Willet reaq:!iI:tt1e apinio,not'tht! inspectianteam is
the entire lot is w~thin eitherthe.resource area or the
buft'er zone. Daesf\ot agree with the wetland boundary as
sMown on the plans.,,!: Asks if> they came .tasome agreement with
Mr. Will s . ,>,
Mr. Wills SaY$i:~~~Y deci"edtogowith that apinion that,
it 's ei therresourc.t'i jareaarthe bu1"t'er zane. i
Mr. Perry says~~ey could argue that the ~rea under
pavement was the re.ource area but just about everything else
they agreed upon.
. ',~ 'J '(t:'-':.~:1-;-';~.j.!,~~t~~_oi>ikj:f.;- 'C' -,..);;~~~o,t<1'!"J~'..h-~ri~rt~.j-,-];.:
1
Meeting Minutes t'or Octaber 24, 1991
Page 12
Mr-. Wi tl'sshows aerial ,.phOtographs ot'lthe Brant PCfint
area in the '50's or early "'60's which Sh,'ws the site quite
clearly. !
f
Dr. Dunwiddie says he thinks that wha
ambiguous about the site is there is a 1 t 0" inv$.sive non-
obligate wetland spec ie!(ion the site. rings like.
Honeysuckl'..na Wisteria. Going just 0"- 'egetat ian alone it
was not im",edi.tely c:lear where the"'tI~ta. 'boundary was but
he was .rather.surprised that, as Haine!s'f'jas suggested in the
past that we,lOdk more at soils, by ~akirigjust a t'ew digs ot'
~:: I :~~v:~ i i:~ . :::: :=~~a:~~~r~;::~; ~~:~e ~ci t A ~;~ Y w~: t: ~
clear from a. photograph like this is it's just sand that's
been blawirigUt~ It didn'tblaw into this area so you've got
a wetland. It's basically all wet.
Mr. Perry says he thinks we all agree it is a positive
determination.
MOTION: To issue a-positive determination is made
and sec::orided.
UNANIMOUS
2. ORDER OF CONDITIONS (Full text of Orders in fl1e)
a. Diehl - 44 Meadawview Drive - SE4S-656 - (56-297)
Present for the applicant is Mr. Robert Emack who. says
his only comment is on #6 which may be a standard statement
regarding as-build requirements but seemS a little
burdensome. Is wandering if it cauld be replaced with
requirement for a septic as-built plan and a plan of any area
that has been disturbed.
Mr. Perry says 100 t'eet of the septic system is just apen
space and this is a standard condition.
MOTION: To accept the order as drat'ted is made and
seconded.
UNANIMOUS.
ADDITIONAL. SPECIAL CONDITIONS
Wi~lia.. Di~l Rl!alty Trust
30hn& Ann MUrphy', Trustees
DEP FILE NUt'lQER SE48 - 656
ASSESSOR I S MP. 56, PARCEL a97
44 Meado"~iew Drive
UNDER THE ttASSACHUSETTSWETLANDS PROTECTION ACT
, ...,..... r'" '^M'Tr-n ....... ,........,....,..... "'.. ,. ^ ,;.
.
~ ".- .--~ .~._-~.~,.:"_--.-"':',-"",,-,",-,---_--.:-....a..~~J;;,;.";""''''';'-:'''........-....-.__._...._____..;...,. -._._._____...._oo__...:.:. L......~_....._~. __. _.-... _ ,_
l'
Additianal Special Conditiaos page 13
AND 'THE WETLANDS BYLAW OF .l"HE TOWN OF NANTUCKET
( CHAPTER 136 )
WAIVERS UNDER THE NANTUCkET WETLANDS BYLAW:
The Nantucket Consferv~tion Commission hereby grants the applicant
the following waiv,rs:
,
I
1. One waiver t'rom Sec;:tion 3.Q2 (B)(~) whic;:h require. at
least a 100 foptseparation between a septic~ 1,eac;:h
facility and a"vegetated wetlClnd. Thiswaiverwoulcl be
for the construction ot'th., replacemen* septic system
leach facility approximately fifty-one (51) t'eet t'ram a
vegetated wetland.
2. One Waiver from Section 3.QUB) (4) whiC;h require. at
least 100 feet separat.ionof a $Septic ~eac;:h t'aci 1 ity from
the seasonal high water line of the waterbody(the
existing man-made pond.
The Com/'llission notes that the house is an lawfully existing
$S'tr&i&c;tuFerand due to the constrain~s the wetlands place on the
proP"nt~; there has been a clear and convinci.,g ,s;howingby the
a~t:*l'l:'e,ant that there are no reasonab 1 e cond it ians or a 1 ternat i ves
'tb~~;wq~ld allow the project to. praceed in 9ilmpli.ance with the
rltlJ\Jl~tions. The proposed septic. system replacement wi 11, as
c:C)qa,*~JQned above, have noadver.e eft'~c:t upon ,any af the
inc~er:It1!1~SC3rotected by the Bylaw and will result in an
imgr.,ve/'ll.....t over the existing. To. deny the waiver request would
rIUltric;:~ the use of the property so as to. potential 1 y consti tute
a~akin~~~thout compensation. Therefore, these waivers are
grantec;fu..,der the liluthority at' Sections 1.03(F) (1) and
1.03(F)(2)(a), (b) and (c) of the Wetlands Protection
Regulations.
###
b. O'Neill - 98 Wauwinet Road - SE48-662 - (11-25)
Cammissioner Kelliher abstains fram the discussion and vote.
Present for the applicant is Mr. Rabert Emaek. Mr. Emack
has no comment.
Mr. Perry says in #14. the onl y change he would like to
make is to add ., excep t a lJ owed by wa i ver' where i t says no
p~rt of any structure....
MOTION: To accept the order a. madit'ied is made and
seconded.
UNANIMOUS
'_" _:,;,:~i,~~~~:mJ;.<--,;::;~,' ~-~~~~;(j>,.4';t;li_-i';~~~:J:_';',
ADDITION~ SPECIAL CONDITIONS
'Y. 1!IenrVt6 iEl.anar' g'. .....0. Nei 11
DEP FILE NUMBER SE4B - 662
ASSESSOR'" !:)....ttAPll, PARCEL 25
9S Wautllinet'Road
UNDER THE t1ASSACHUSETTS WETLANDS PROTECTION ACT
( MGl... CHAPTER 131, SECT ION 40 )
AND THE WETLANDS.SVLAW OF THE TOWN OF NANTUCKET
(" CHAPTER 130 )
WAIVER UNDER THE NANTUCKET WETLANDS BYLAW:
The Commission 'herebygr1anc6 the applicant a waive... from Section
2.05(B)(5) at' the WetlandsProtectian Regulations of the Town of
Nant;ucket,. under the Wetlancts Bylaw (Chapter lS6)~. . This' section
reCJui res 5 true tures wh i c:h arena twater-"'deper1dlfnt 'j tama i htat'" at
leaat a 50-t'00t setback fram a coastal bank. Therefore, this"
sec:tic:1n would apply to the ten foot square "breakfast area" and a
smCill1portion of the additi9n wall and deck face a.sho",," on the
fi.081 approved plan. Hl:lwever, there haS! been a clear and
convincing showing by the appl icant' that there are no reasonable
c:or,dltions or alternativesLthat wauld allow. the, project to
praC;".d in compliance with the regulations and addi,tion will','as
cpnc::Otioned abave, result in no adverse effect upon any of the
inter1:"ests protected by the Bylaw. The,refore, these waivers are
g...anted under the. authari ty ot' Sections 1.03(F) (1<> and
1.0S(F)(2)(a) and (d) of the Wetlands Protection Regulations.
###
c. Leet - 24 Western Ave. - SE48-672 - (S7-76)
Present forth.applicant are Mr. Lester Smith and
Attorney Melissa Philbrick.
Mr. Smith says they received a copy of the drat't order
and there were three items they wanted to disc:uss. 4UStalks
about the dwelling being limited to.atwo bedroom. He doaos
nat recall anyth ing being suggest.. tttere was a di fference in
impacts between two and three b'~bOiR$'. ' They are proposing
three bedraoms. There was no in~o...mation presented so he
would assume there isn' t. 4U9d~sn'tprovide a footprint,
we had a t'ootprint of 1032 ~q. fti~ith deck. #25 is tMe
maximum ridge height which we had as 26' and the draft
i nd icates 22'.
Mr. Perry says #25 was baSH/On the ZBA decision to limit
to 22'.
M,r. Smith says that is being appealed and they will be
goingb$Ckto that committee.
I
"._~.; . .~.....~_....,,,~::o;......._~~.- ,.... :.;....~......:.ir'....'A...:.IIIr.;...~'i.i~;,,,.>.l..>......< ',;;' '.,~
~''''';~~...';:,_;_:c..~::'_~:.....__ .."._ _.. '~_'_"__ _."._.....;...._-'___.._'- .__~.:. _ _.' ._--:.-.....:......~_~_:.....--_;~~
.~ .....-
I
Additional Special Conditions page 15
as waiting for input from the
size of the deck.
Mr. $~ith says that rea.ll.y is 4 Board 0.1' Health issue in
terms ot'fllt!eting local and state requirements.
Mr.<K~.J.J..lher asks .i.f the Baard ot' Health has appraved the
sep~Jcsy~tem.~
~r..S..~th says no, it!sbet'Qre them right naw.Obviously
yours will,JiJe contingent upon that- approval.
Mr.'Perry asks if it has been submitted since the last
meeting.
Mr. Smith says it has been submitted.
Mr. Perry says he thinks the waiver process allows us to.
put conditions on what we think are apprapriate.
Mr. Willet says consensus ist'or two bedroams.
Mr.' Smith 15ays there has to.be same int'ormatian on which
you make thatq_cision. We haven't heard anything an the
dift'erence.between a two. bedraomancf a three bedraom impact
tMat wo~ld justify that ~ype of restriction.
Mr. Perry says the dift'erence is a 30% reduction in the
et't'luent going into the dune.
Mr. Smith says that's a volume not an impact.
Mr. Perry s4Ys if we're going to stick with #18 we need a
septic system design for two. bedrooms.
Attorney Philbrick comments an#aS that whatever ridge
heigMtyou want she would .askthe..re.f'er:-enceas required by
the ZBA be deleted because given that decision is under
appeal looking back at this in three years may be canfusing.
.. '"
/
.. ~
Additianal Special Canditians page 16
Suggests standard language be used. The minutes will show
why yau said what you said but let's not put i~ in the order.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he thinks that is a good request.
Mr. Arthur Reade says he repres.~tsa large number of
abutters who areCOf\Cerryed with 'tHlti'Tp,..oject and wMo also
appealed the Boaf"~ of Afjpeals decislc)n..' It' you are going to.
allow this project he thinks prettY'~ft",e"'..llY t!U!!draft or~er
of conditions is t1.p-proprililte and "'<a"~$.t appropriate
limitations on thepro,h.ct. HoweVe...~ he thinks an absolutely
devastating and shacking precedentl!iibeing set by this
commission. It's one thing to allo~jla'~'Waiver and h4l!<t:'as
t'ought pretty hard t'or..waivers allaiilt~ng'a septic inabut'fer
zone. This isn't a btllt't'er zone. Ttl~sis..a ca.se of putting a
septic system in a res.ource area in'!"lfoastal bank or dune.
I don't know another case where intecent times that's been
done. This is not a !i=lil,e like Hawkes where you're dealing
with an existing structure where itha$ to be salvaged to
allow it to remain. This is a new ~t'a~ect. There is not a
God given right to build on every ldl~~ The regulatians exist
for a reason. To allow this project ygu are undercutting
every presumption of slgnificanceupdetf:' whic::h you aper.ate and
I urge you to deny, to issue a negative order of conditions
denying the pro~ect.
Ms. Philbrick says Just a commer\t'dn the'fact the
hearings are clased, you need to. gotl..~k and review the
minutes and look at the testimany bY'ilKe experts.
Ms. Creighton says she does not>believe the minutes will
reflect the Land Council being for thi~ project.
I
Ms. Philbrick says she daesn't mean'to imply that.
Ms. Creightan says she does want to reite..-ate as their
i ni t ial\.. letter stated there are a nijmb..r of very clear
regulatians and as Mr. Reade just said and as they haVe said
at every hearing, you're allawing activity to. take place
within a coastal dune and this a very bad precedent.
Mr. Willet asks for a motion to accept or not accept the
order.
Mr. Kelliher moves we accept the arder.
Th~: motion is notsec::anded.
Dr. Dunwiddie moves we not issue the order and have the
administrator write a dit'ferent order denying the project.
Ms. McCall seconds the motian.
I
.
"~'''''-'~---'----~~._-''---------''-------~... -' ~ ~.'--"'~----""~'-"--"- - -'-'---~'-""'-''''''-''''''- -......-,-...----
.:.0....'
.........- .,
t'
Additional Special Conditions page 17
Ms. Philbrick says she would s~ggest we go back over
testimony to make sure you have a scienti:fic ba!iis for
determining there is a impact that justifies your action. I
can't deny that.i t' s where it is. - I can laak next doar and
up and down the bank and there are a number ofothersep~ic
syste...sthat exist the.re with yaur permiss!onas prec:.dent
without impact. And I can point you back to the me.~ingfi
that we've had ~here you 'v. h~d ailencean the ather side and
we have had people speaking to the issue.
\
Mr. Willet says McMaster's just gat one a little while
ago. Asks the vote be continued.
MOTION: To not issue..the order and to write a
diff'erent order isqta..,e and seconded.
YES: 3 (J:)un~iddie, Mc:CoI1, Hussey)
No: 1 (Kelliher)
Abstain: 3 Ufilson, Wasierski, Wi llet)
Mr. Willet says all right, so it's denied.
Dr. Dunwiddie says no., it's not.
Ms.. McColl says Dr. Dunwiddie'a <<nation died.-
Mr. Willet asks for another motion.
Dr. Dunwiddie says you could reapen the hearings.
Mr. Perry says the hearings are clased and we have until
next Thvrsday to issue an orderane way or the other. Or you.
could rephrase one of the motions.
Mrs. Hussey says we could draf't an order doing-something
~lse.
Mr. Wasierski asks what else are they going to do.
Mr. Willet asks~he~applicant if we can get an extension
from you so we can do this at the next meeting.
-
Mrs. Philbrick asks on what basis.
Mr. Kelliher makes a motion we accept the arderof'
conditions as amended.
The motion is not seconded.
"
';'", ,;,>;;~~,,,1U,1i~~,k;;;3'~'\"<~M,-~~:'\ti,~j~{~.}:.>~~~~
1
Additf;anal Special Canc:li tians page 18
t1r. Perry says s;il'lce we are hcavipg ~ meeting next weEK
with Town Counsel; suggests we post tMe meeting and think
about it over the weekend.
I
~r. Willet agrees that is a goad s~1 estion.
I
Mrs. Philbrick says she thinks it'w want to gO bact<
through the file and really look at all the information you
wi 11 come to a cone lusion.
Mr. Perry says he will post the mee~ing for 3-5 PM or
Tuesday, at'teT" the workshop wi th ToWn' Ci' unsel at the
Selectmen's office.
MOTION: To continue thed.cisi~n until next week and
draft an Ordt!T" denying the praiect is. made and
secor'll:led.
UNANIMOUS
d. Lepgewood - 355 Ma~aket Rd - SE48-670 (60-130 & 134)
MOTION: To !=ontinue at the appl'lcan't '$ request is
made and secanded.c
UNANIMOUS
3. CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE
a. Shennan - Squam Road - sE48-335 (21-120)
Mr. Willet asks Mr. Perry for his recammendation.
Mr. PerT"Y says thi15 is "far the culverts on the.drive...ay;
recommends it be granteQ. They are gaing to file a
determination for the bT"ushcutting shortly.
MOTION: To issue the Certificate at' Compliance is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
b. Godt'rey - 325 Polpis Road - SE48-415 - (25-40)
'Present are Mr. and Mrs. Godt'rey. Mr. Willet suggests
the discussion on this hearingf'ar the pond be put aside and
first the Certificate of Compli_nce t'or the house be
rEi?solved.
Mr. Kelliher abstainst'romtMe discussion and the vate.
.
\.
i
Additional Special Conditions page 19
Mr. Perry says at the la,!i$t meeting additional
discrepancies were noted between the as-buil.t and the plan
which he has highlighted.;
II
Mr. GQdt'rey says he was surprised when he got the call i
and was pretty shocked to hear it wasn't where he thought it!
was. Thinks he can explain some at' it. Reads from his nate
reviewing the history of the project.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks what 'Mr. Hart is certit'ying in the
plan, if it is substantially in compliance.
Mr. Godt'rey says he is certifying the ink drawing which
is the as-built. the red QutlJne, within the purple.
Continues this map is thearigillal st,.ibdivisian map which wasi
done in 1982 by .John Shugrue. The Sanguinetti's divided the'
six acre lot into the lower lot which is ours and another
lot. Approximately 1/3 ot' the lPt was buildable. The access
road was cut into the property in 1987 and bet'Qre they
applied t'o.r bui Idingpermi ts tf1l!fY went thraugh the process
with DEQE.' Hart and Blac;:kwell didth4i! survey for their
property when they firstpurcha"ed it and at the time the
original stakes were still inpl.ace thatJ'phn ,Shugrue had put
in and they are still there taday. When the secand lat was
sold there was anather survey dqneand there was a slight
difference ,so he (Godfre.y) paid his engineers to do a second
survey ot' the entire property andth.y .decidedwhenthev,sat.
dONn to pasition the hQuse because they were gaing to. be
fair'ly clase to the nor,tbproperty baundary in arder to
observe the 20' setback that rather than put the house as
c 10 5e as they poss ib lyco.Ul dth4i!Y give it a little leeway.
Then they lacated an area t'or the prapased septic'system
expansion t'acility in the> knoll area where the elevation was
over 26' and at that point they knew they needed to have the
septic system area a minimum of 25-30' in width in this area
and also observe the setback minimum on the ather side of the
property. When the roadwa!iinitially cleared in and he saw
it was a wet area, he decided the best location t'or the house
would be the hill. At'ter he got the numbers t'ram DEQE the
information he has from the engineer and the architect,
everything was labeled at that time as approximate proposed
location fbr well, ~eptic system, house, utility lines. They
tried to consider the setbacks t'or ~he house t'rom the
proposed septic system reserve area which was 30' w~de and
also the Planning department had notit'~ed them the Palpis
bikepath would require an easement across the property on the
northeast corner which would total 27'. So taking both into
consideratian and the canstructian of the road which had been
in place for two years ~hey wer~ let't with a minimal amount
of distance in which to loca~e the house an the ridge. At
that pOint he negotiated with the Planning departmen! to move
the bikepath somewhat lower on the ridge so that it wouldn't
..
r
Additional Special Conditions page 20
l~terally be crassing the top ot' t~e pill and be looking
right In the, wi~dow ot' the~house as it was positioned. At
that point the approval sheet which 5 ows the e.r1trance road,
the: clear~ngt'9r the house and garag~ - when.~hey we:re given
thlS, they (Godfrey's) were never. u'1d r.the lmpresslon that
the actual drawing shape 0.1' the hou.. itselt' wouldn't be able
to vary 1', 2', 20' anywhere wi thin .' his cut area that was
prepared for it.
~r. Perry nates theappraved sta
is from the HCD.
,
Mr. Willet says that has nothlngjto do with Can Com;
sounds like you toak everybady into. ~onsideratidn but us.
What it boi ls down to it's mucM CIos;'.r t~ the wetlands than
was portrayed to us and where do we a from here.
. .
Mr. Godfrey says this area labeled as water hole, when we
did our initial siteinspectian was dry. During periods of
rain it does hold water.
(" t1rs.~ Godfrey says we me~.~ured it tdday fram the
found~.tlon t.p thewe.t ~.reaand it was' 46' , not t'rom the
corner ot' the deck wh i~h was 31' .. When theCranf;)erry B'og
drains tothlliexisting'wetlands that surrounds the property
it varies in helght$ even then~
Mr. Willet says the wetland is not very clearly marked
and he !jiupposes the commission accepted a pretty minimal
wetland'line there but nanetheless there has been a major
shift in the distance~.
Mr. Godfrey says thi,s positionot',what is labeled as
water hole was never surveyed into that; it.,W~U5positioned by
hand and rough located for the purpose 0.1' the map to try to
identify where it was located. So a distance that was
written in pencil ot' 60' was certainly not a distance of what
was hard and t'astto where it was lacated during the season.
Mr. Perry says it is an the 1987 plans what was submitted
to thecommissianand approved and so that is what I'm going
on as the dit't'erence in the bUilding'faatprint proposed and
actual.
Mr .Godfq!ysay~ ~t' we took what you' rfit saying at face
value and the approximate .lqcatian t'rom the house t'oundation
to this. b.ei"g 60 i as you' restating which was"' tshat wIth a
transit, was appro)(im~ted, if 'you lacated the hOuse 20'
further back in this directipn it puts the house on the
proposed septic system location. Theoreti<:ally it sounds as
though it cauld be done but the access road had been cut into
this prope.rty prior to this even being located on this map so
I'm having a hard time trying to understand how the house
1
Additianal Special Cancli tians page 21
could h...ve been moved 20' i.n this direction when it would be
on the proposed" septic location.that was an this m~p.
Mr. ~tllet says but there is a difference t'roml hat you
submitted to us and what was actually built. It's/about 30'
closet to the wetland I
I
Mr. Godt'rey says it looked to me it was betwee 18 and
22' bu,t there is a dit't'erence.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if this was submitted prior,to the new
regulations.
Mr. Willet says yes.
l'1f:'s. Godt'rey asks it' a deck is cansidertpd parJ of the
structure.
Mr. Perry says yes.
Mr... GOdfrey s~ys.it ltIas,:~ot a.n.of;)E!l'\a.ttempt . ,?(\"t'iis. p.art
- toi,rlV,~p". .,~ ..we~,lahdiat:".lta. .' ..~i tt1..tb" .~...al,&nta:f ?eC:,._l5ary area
t9,..Jst~v.,~~"eea;semf:m~ . for,... thltPikf!path,thE!._.,pt ie:. sy~te... area
and/tf.eroad, there was llt.er.'llynd pl..~It.'~b"~u~,tt1f!'house
but.:wf"lere it is or put it an top af the ptoposedseptic
.;:,~oC;"~~if)n.', .
;;;,,}(
. ~r:::$.'. G~dt'reysaY$.therei It such a small dry area' an the
lot thf!itre wasn't';.' lato" raom to maneuver.
I1r..Godt'rey says they are.).e~vi ng a 7 1 /2' barrier of
vege~a~tionbetweenthe road ,arid the bikepath and then they
needa.20' zOrll'ng setback.
:t'fft. GodfreY' says when they got into. the discrepancy of
1tIf'1,~Y"lttheactual side 1 ine was tHey de.cided t9 nbtJ~ltt into a
cont'roritation over it and twisted the house sO it would be
more. than 20' fram the praperty 1 ine.
Dr.. Dunwiddie comments that the original location of the
house was more than 20t'eet from the property line.
Mr. Godfrey says the old location as propased was 22' but
the 1 inei tselt' waS loc;:atedin "such away thiltthe corner of
the wing would have protruded over. the 20' limitatiO'1 so it
was twisted to put it parallel so it wouldn't overhang it.
The as-built shows itis20'41t t'ramthe line now sa we just
meet th. setback requirements I;ly 4". '
Mrs. Godfrey says what they didn't realize was that they
should have had sonU;!Orle ~i th a transit shoat the batterboards
in for them. It was done by their measuring it and they
r-
. .:t;;,~-,~~:,,~t'~;';;;.;;)i~lt.;~iiP . '-~f,k~i:,':!~/.;>{:~;';';~~::;,:;\-;
~ _..;.. _~~"..I. . A: ,~,'. ";';_~:,~,1;;~;,-~~~!:t"~';.;:':~~:'~.;:."21'"~-:::E~2.:::;.L.:.~.:.-,~..:..i..~:,~~~';
",:~""""",,_,~__::-_"""''''''_';_.i' _~,_,,'"__' ._~.'~4>__' _--...~~ ,"_
_ ___ _ _ _'_ ~.__.,'-::-.': ._--..J. ___.__-.:.._ ._~~.-___
1
~ditional Special Conditions page 22
didn't really realize that this was
cgoil1g to be.
hat the end result was
Mr. Perry says the house t'ootpr il
exception ot' 'the deck. It was Just I
twisted and slid forward 25'.
line up, with the
locatian that was
Mr. Godt'rey asks it' the 2S' wa~ a measur~ment taken at
the site.
Mr. Perry says no, with a ruler on the paper.
Mr. Willet says in the past we have requested a
conservation restric;::tion and mpdit'y the decks on the house in
. a situation like thi 5." ~,
Mr. Gadt'reysays he wauld be w~11in9t.a give a
conservation restriction to. limit the 'amount 0.1' building on
the property.
Mrs. Godfrey says they have revegetated around the
wetland with native material. The deck is just one sonartube
and doesn't t'eel it has any major ad~erse affect.
Mr. Willet suggests they look at a conservation
restriction as well as at passibly modifying the deck.
Mr. Perry adds that in the warst scenariQ the Commission
has the autharity to make them move the hause.
Mrs. Hussey suggests replication.
Mr. Gadfrey says since they wanted to build a pond where
the wetland is they would be iri'terested in expanding it.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he $Sees nO,pOint in trying to recreate
a wetland tMat wasn't't'illed. Thinks the encroachment an the
baundary af the wetland is what's at issue and he doesn't
know how you can mitigate that except by jacking up the house
and'moving it away. And if the, commission doesn't want to. go.
that route he thinks we just have to push t'or everything else
~~-~,,,,.._..'.:...,,,"-
t ' .'~', ,...... .,....'- '~", .
Additianal Special Conditians page 23
that we possibly can tMat's gaing to mitigate_ that whether
it's taking off the porch or a conservation restriction.
Mr. a9d,Mrs. Godfrey agree tp m~~e a praposal to. the
commission. Mr. God~rey a~ks what~~eydo about the issue 0.1'
the pond.
M...., Willet says he would like to not get into the pond
issue until this is straightened out.
Mr. Wilson says he feels the house shauld be in
compliancefirst~
Mr. Perry say.s ttle pond shot,lld be considered on it's own
merit.
MOTION:. .To cOl'ltinue with the applicant's permissian
for ac:Iditional infarmation is made and seconded.
U",ANIMOUS
c. Reade - 249 Polphi Road - SElt8....4~6 - (2~,-62.1)
Mr. Perry says this. is reaCl'yto go. but he is, going to
note one exception an the compliance that being. the septic
system loca~ionbut is a.lsogoingto.note ttlat it wj 11 be
moved as a result of 'the" 1.te5~,.order issued. .v
MOTION: To. issue the certit'icate is made and
secanded.
UNANIMOUS'
d. Saligman - 117 Eel Point Raad
SE48-603 - (32-1)
Mr. Perry says he has 'two comments: one that the
observatJ9n deck is .8" an ,~chsi~e too ,big Cl.nd th.t the
wa1kways are o.k. l...ooking.~~,.,t~.~imp.cts of the whale '
project that is within 37 square feet of its allawable graund
cover under" zoning, howevli!r, a" 01' either side is not
significant enough to nat issue. . ,
Mr. Wasierski asks what Lee Dunn would do in case such as
this.
MOTION': To issue the Cert.ificate.of Compliance is
made and seconded.
YES: 5
NO: 1 ( Wast erski )
Abstain: 1 (Wi llet)
.;_.., _.__--'.__..~. ~ .___.... ___'__''''''' ___..__....'A...._.---.-.; .
l..,
1
Additional Special Condi tions page 24
e. Dooley - 11 Palliwog Pond Rd - SE4B-433 (55~422.6)
MOTION: To continue at the applicant's request and
for additional information is made and secanded.
UNANIMOUS
t'.
Greenhill - Hoick's Hallow - SE48-59a - (23-01)
c
Mr. Wi llet and Dr. Dunwiddie abstitln fram the discussi'on
and the vote.
Present t'ar the applicant is Attorney Melissa Philbrick.
I
I
, ....-;
Mr. Perry says ,this is t'or the, grave!! drivettr.tay.' It'i.
located where it is supposed to be; isentirely:ou-ts~,~J,pt'
50' from the bank and he thinks it is t'ine with the ongoing
condition that it stays pervious.
Attorney Philbrick objects to the c,ondi tton sayil19 ona
pure conveyancing- paint af view that c'ont<inuthg condit;i:b'tt.
are a burden. It' they have to do any work wi tti i n the 'bllf','twy
, ". '... .., ' y'
they will have to come batk to theco~missian.' . .~
Dr. Dunwiddiesays he thinks she has a point.
Commissian reminds Dr. Dunwiddie he is abstaining.
Mr. Perry says it may be a conveyancing prablem but it's
a minor thing.
Attarney Philbrick says what yau're doing is undermining
the assumption that people have got to. come back in if they
are going to do. work. If you're going to. suggest that by
doing this now they've go~ permissi~n to do. everything but
make it impervious you're just creating the wrang impression.
Mr. Willet says but you advise them that"s not the case.
Mr. Kelliher says he thinks that is a point well made.
Mr. Willet notes he abstained as well for the original
Notice at' Intent.
Mr. Wasierski asks for a matian.
Commissioners discuss the condition and agrt!e it is not
necessary as it is a presumption the driveway will remain as
is and if any change is proRased will file a notice.
MOTION: To. issue the Cer'tif'icate ot' Compliance
without suggested conditian is made and seconded.
_'" ',.~1l1il!~"'",L.:...,~ ,.:~~~,::.,.....,.".;.""
_~~"';;':':~~.....;o;..-A...:""_~_ _' __.__,
"_....~ - .....-._"'........;. ......_______l-_..._ _.
T
Addi tianal Special COTKIi tian5 page 25
a . Anap,o I
Pennsylvania Ave. - SE48-192 - (60.3.1-17)
4. OTHER BUSIN
Present for the applic;aht are Mr. Anapal, Attorney Andrew
Leddy, and Atto hey Ed~.rd ,WOlle
I
Mr. Perry n~tes there is a letter from the Fire Chiet'
clarit'ying hisf;tatement a~ the previaus hearing.
Mr. Willet ~ays he,thiraks at the last meeting we were
trying tos~ggest some ',111ternatives to. what exists aut there
at the moment.
Mr. Leddy thanks the commission t'or allowing them to
delay it for two weeks. ,It has given them a chanc;e t09ather
vario,u$. eviden(:e and t()> t~lk to dit'ferent peo~ile a.. tb~t.a...,e
Sl~~nifica.nt facts in diSPH~e. Introduces Mr. Edward Wallw,",o
",,~uld like to. make a pr~s~ntation in historical form 0.1' the,
development of the praperty.
Mr .Woll 'says he read thraugh the minutes and through
~Onte ot' <~hf!t record and thinks .,there is ,cont'usionof> what. the
r,,~lt'':ct.swere back in, the 70's 'and 80' 5 thraugh 198650 to
d'~~i wtth that they hcav~,J~""g up photagraphs to. i ncludti!4erial
as well as t'rom the ground. All 0.1' the photagraphs shaw
sttveral things: one that there has always been an access
frOm Rhode Island Avenue qnto this property i~ the place
where 'it was carved out early this year and maintained.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks him to~xplain what he means by
aceess--is it a vehicular, access.'
"0 !
Mr. Woll scays this isa vehicular access. Says in 1982 a
second story was put on the building. Shows photagraphs of
pre-'82 witt't access where it is rigt't now. Earlit!r photas
show the dunes much lower but with the access. The 1975
aerial photo shows PennSYlvania Avenue as passable, shawsthe
access and the telephane pole. An '1983 aerial shows the
access more defined than 1975.
Mr. Willet asks if this was the access that was always
used; says Mr. Leddy indicated another access which sameone
had blocked oft'.
Ms. McColl says you have said th~t many times, that the
access was t'rom Massa(:hus~tts Avenue.
._._.....o-.__~.......'"'_______._-..........~~~,' ~ --~ ..___.......c"'~~.;;:,...~:".>~ <.~. ..~:;:.,......:.... >-,.-~
Addi tional Special Candi tions page C!6
Mr. Wollsays he will ge.t to that. Continues with a 1988
phato whichsl10ws a buildup withsc.rnd 'fencing. The terrain
is quite dit''ferent 'then it wasin'19?5and 1983. Compares
when the house ~as one story with the sand up against the
house, almost up to the windows, and nates that naw it is not
there--there is a five foat gap. From one year to the next
you can have any access in that area completely wiped out.
Ms. McColl says she knows t'ram Rersonalint'ormation that
last year there was no vehitle access to'theAnapal house;
she was out at the house next daar every Saturday and there
was no vehicle access to the' Anapol house.
Mr. Wall says that may be, let me get to that. This was
in 19S8. Points to. an area whl-chls part af a !subdivision
established in 1913. All af the deeds in here refer to the
plan an that subdivisian and there is. a right of access ,an
all of-those sU9division roads to their variouspraf3erties.
People maintained the. op.ening when~hEeY could but someone
two, three, is not sure~ow long ac;l~".put up a snawfence an.d
bloc ked the access, obstT"UC ted that "way. And then peop 1 e
started to. park here or at that tim~.I think you accessed
around the fence at 1;imes and then tMefence got extended
acrass the ro*d. .. .
Mr. Anapal says that's right, it went up-' in sections, one
piec:e at a time.
Mr. Woll says and then he wentov,~r here for awhile and
walked through over here far a year or two arid then this year
he opened up that access all the waythraugh here and took
the snow fence out. Points out the end af Rtlode Island
Avenue is right here. At the time that snow fence went up we
think there was also a sign put up saying this is a dune
conservation area. Some sign like that, to. restrict people
or to persuade people not to access: that partion 0.1 it. So
sameane illegally put a snaw t'ence up here and put up that
sign that for some reason was respected. This is not the
Anapal's residence, they rent it out. This year they have a-
tenant coming in. Presents letter, from the tenant who is
disabled and relies on a wheelchair t'or mobility. That
tenant has to be able to. come in here and use that access
road. And all he has done is opened up the access road ne
has had for years thraugh there. The photographs and the
plan right here,tnat access was carved out at that periOd at'
time and maintained for several years and used, continuously,
until someone started to gradually put up a snaw fence. He
has a hunch why they put the snow fence up was to keep the
sand t'rom blowing down here and covering up the t'ront af'this
driveway to protect themselves so they wouldn't have to plOW
and maintain. The snow fence is what caused the accumulation
of sand here in the beginning and itbac:kedup in here. But
pM____.--._.._ _._.__....,~___ __.~.. . ....__' ...___.._....:____. ___...w.__. '~"_'_'.____..__,_.. _*..,~__.~.._ ~
~............,.;;.. . ,,",,'.,.."~",,, .'.........-.,....-' ...~....... '''''--r' '--';"'.. ,,>-..~ - Y..'..,.;,; .- '. '~j."'-'~~-" :."..'".;;....
l'
Additional Special Conditians pag~ 27
.
that avenue is still there and it' you look at the Photogra~hS
you'll find ther!! is t;r,emeridousshiftinQ ot' sand. V04can go
back next summer at'terthis winter and t'ind this whale ar
filled in.
I
Mr. Perry says hedoub~s it.
Mr. Wollsays well ir happened bac.k here. We.ve had ive
feet of sand disappear overt'ive years.
is.
Mr. Willet says whatyau're Proposing is just leave if
as
Mr.Wol.l says just leave as is and maintain the acces~
that has been there.
Mr. . Perry says we were there on Monday ancl a1.1;th., sand
thatWt1lS ~ac~ed aro,und the hau~, back in .July. is now gone.
How c;:.,n~o,.~$ay yo.... maintained, it and stabilized it tofhen
everyth~",!';yOU did in ;the spring isg9ne.
M~ltk!~9,11~ays the Order ot'Conditio!ls saY!iibackin 1~82
they.>had'a right to maintain access to the hou!u!!. There was
anac~..~.at that paint.. They've maintained that access..
No~~"~V,1iIf'4!!'Qoi\'lg.backand carving this access out so that
thEitye:ar-(get vehicles up here which -they have a right to do.
1'1?1l.i,J"tc;:c;a 11 Says shedoesn' t see that they have been
m~~~tai.:i'l~ng' it since 1982. .
~~.A"jipOl says not much sand has moved since April till
tOday, very little.
1'1",. McColl says the road is almast completely gone what
you c:arveclout earlier this spring.
Mr. Wollsays that may be. That's exactly the point.
Mr.-Arapolsaysthey do want to stabilize the area and
the road and that is the plan that Mr. Champoux has propased.
Mr. l..ti!ddy says this did start originally as a submission
of ~ replilnting planwhlch we have completely last track of
in 'tl:\e 1 ast6 weeks anc( have been t'oct.lsedso 1 e 1 Y an the
drivew~yissue. Mr. Champoux came up with a plan to attempt
to st~bilize the entire l~cus.
MS. McColl says we told him we didn't think it would
work.
Mr. Woll asks what is the objective of the commission.
';::~:-');';":~"f,~r~.fj:':~f~,_;,ti;~~~1:t':,:.'d'
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l'
,
Additiona~ Special Conditions page 28
Mr. Willet says to
that area as much as we can.
Mr. Wo ll1!$8')1s take a
house and see, where you
at the ~.r; two plans a
that the _anci'moves ther
look~t thephatographyaround'the
ink the<duf1es are and take a lOOk
d the_! p'ictures and you'll find'
d1"ama't'l c:a 11 ya 11 the time.
Mr. Wilson says but to be moving consistently
past the house to the ea t.
,
Dr. Dunwiddie paints/to the aerial photos and says it's
moving this way and what was dense beach ~rass is very
sparse. I '
Mr. Anllj:)ol says ~here is m01"'4!{'tJeach grass around that
house now then there ever was.
Mr. Petry presents a different aplnlon 0.1' what the-actual
notice ofiptentwas for back in 1981. Back in 1976 there
was ari eh'fpf\~tfment order issued tltheAnapal's because they
, , .~:';t':.", ",:~" "': '.- '''''' ","Vi!!:'
dug outP...r'",~YlVa1't1.aAvenue,and ct'~ated a parking area and
there wa,s'lI'.~lc:ture in the fi lew~lC:h showed a Cadillac
pai"'ked in<t~e park i ng area. Th.r" lNas an ,enforcement order
issued aslc,'1"O them to rectify it.~ the work was dane witf'tout
permissiol"l:of the Con Cam. In 2/9"6 Midhael Driscoll wrote a
let.ter, to the cOmmission ~aYinc;;Jt'~ ,~uestion raised by their
digging out the raadtanstituted .itdess to the property as
well as p.rk'ing space for a car, jomething that needs to be
addressed. Notes that a parking space for a car is not a
driveway right up to the house. It was on Pennsylvania Ave
and it cl..rly showed that the dutle was well above the car
already before it was dug out. It also goes on to say Mrs.
Anapol will, coaperate with the cOl1tlnission but sincerely hopes
that the result will nat be the burying ot' her house in sand.
So the next one in 1977 t'rom Mike Driscall was how can Mr.
Anapo I have sand removed from hi s" proper ty so he can open the
door to his house, find his fourida'tic;:m and open up a par'king
space. Again the discussion issahd" blown up against the
house and getting a parking sp~c::e,f not a driveway right to
the door. And in a 1977' discussion of the enforcement order
the minutes say, the dunes are prp,ably between 15 and 20'
above the road bed with same spar.. beach grass growing on
top. So again, the road that waf$ ~iug out (Pennsylvania Ave.)
to the seward, side already had1'S{ of sand built up.
Presents pictlJresfrom the "Mad_kilt Sand" 1'1 Ie from 1979
showing the sand and how the ho;Usi~ were bui It on top of the
dune. In 1981 there was a letteT-!<1'rom the Board of Selectmen
, ,
which'said they voted nat to remave wind blown sand from
priva'te ways sa they stopped takihgcare of it in 1981. In
1982 they t'i led a not ice to raise 'the cottage and add one
room. In the notice, they also. say that drit'ting sand also
covers the base ot' the cottage causing dry rot. The
:;.. ,....;:.... '.~
L._ '.~_....
Additional Spec1alCanditions page 29
applicant wishes to raise the cattage and add one room. The
day be.foretheorder was issued DEP wrote a letter to the
commission saying nO grading ot' coastal dune is a.llowed under
coa!51:al regulations. So it c(;lmes out. thE! request that you
made was ryot to have a driveway put to the house put to allow
access by removing wind blown sand from your doors and maybe
a p;arkingspace. Not to gouge aut a'dr:iveway thraugh a dune.
Mr. Anapol says we never had to have a driveway, there
was a I ways an acc,ess to. it.
Mr. Woll says it' you take a laok at the pictures the~e
was always an access t'ar vehicles, always. The only time we
didn't use it was when someone put at'ence up across it.
Commissioners say he used the other access; they were
told t'~rthe last 10 years they used tMe other access.
Mr.a..e~dr says he knE!w,t'rom a cpnversation two year~ ago.
...,i.t"'r1r,S,'~n..po l1:l1at .he had beenabJeto come in fram
Massac~~setts Avenue but.,didnot have an easement to do- so.
,.... '.', '.' -', ',,:'._'.,.,;,;.,y,..,><~ ;...- ",. <", " . ""., . ...'..... '. ..' ,: - .:"
A~~;h"k,~~>,tolc1t"a1: Macll:l.~n blockE!d ,off and no long!!!r h.-Q
.c:Ci.$ts.1:tt~,way. As t()what proportion of the time be went
4p'~,i~,~...i~,~~ay,or~hat proportian of tMe time he c::ame.across
hi.ti''';1'\!~''ilh''or'sproj:)erty fr()m Mass4l1chusetts Avenue, he did not
J(rlC3~~t14~;.thl3.t>..,as. .Hekne,W Jilt, least potentially he had. a
CtlQJj:f!;"Ct1.i,,..ing'the 1970's and1~80's which today-he no longer
has.,' ..',.
Mr. Eric::hsen says when he bought his house in 1985 there
was a.,t'ootpathat the ~nd at' the street and he has never . seen
itusect,byvehlcles. Also, he has never had a prablemsince
1~Et5w'tth,$.nd until the cut was made and now he has minimum
lS"afsand.
,Mr. Willet says the issue is we are trying to stabilize
thearjia. Our suggestion was spm!!!" sort of a smallp.rking
areadp~n at the base andat'ootpath in. Other cottages seem
toacC:li!sS that way.
Mr. Woll says he getsacsense from looking at the minutes
that peop Ie dan' t th tnt< that Mr. Apaf301 has rE!spanded to the
requests of the b,oard. He can understand Mr. Anapo1-'!iS
schedul.e and Mr. Leddyc::oMj"t'lil in and trying to do what he
cQuld to presentthereVt!g.~ation plan by :.Mr. Cnampou)(.
There is no question froM the Ph9tographs'we've seen that
there has been an access that's been here, and used after the
s.cond Story was put on. Peter Dool.ywill tell you that
becausElhe used it to bring goods to the party every year and
always drove up.
_ ...._ _ ~ ____-"_...~,....._._....'"*'_.....'"....'..._,...t__.~ __'..J;o,.~",-- ..,~..~,,.. "-'~,.,-,.._..."-.:..'...._"""""'-~__-~:-............;. -..-.....;._...:-'~..M._.~ ,___;.... _ _'_ ..... ~,,~
1
Additianal ~,ecial Conditions page 30
Mr. Doaley says 1982 was the t'irst year he started
Westender. Hecan~t recall it' 198501" 1986 was the la
sumtntllr he catered the par:tyfOrMr:A",&pqland h4! dro'4
the side of the house,therewasprabably a fathom of I
mare on eachsid-e o'fthe house, he,'didn't have to let!
of his tires rand mat<. a maj6r4-wn..H ctrive over dune
unload the gear, set up thE! grill and pick up the stu
the party' and driveo.t't'. AcceSSi~ it t'ltom the side.
the
t
'down
and or
ir out
, and
l' after
: ,I.
Dr. Dunwiddie says the questi,ol'Lls not .so muCh what has
transpired in thepClst.I'm m()t.>f~~~rested in what,'~ gaing
to happen a year f\'"omnow. Ever-ythlY1gyou've sMown u.
indicates that the sand isn't just blowing anywhere, ft's
clearly blowing ea,st. And if th..t'!fi,the case this situ~~ion
is only going to gIrt wor-se. It'" th..',-arldis blowing easti' and
there's scouring going on out there end the sand is just
going to. keep moving down ,the roa~<*f,'I, t'rom of the other
houses we are go ingtobe back 'hfitr.\~lI year t'rom now with the
same problem only worse from evir,r;yq'.,. ,.lse and the prablem'is
justgaing to go ,on ,dawn the road."...,h.rt! do, we stap. Do we
just say ~eep on bulldozing tillyou~ House drops into the
ocean?
Mr. Anapol says'seeensto himthti!t beach is getting wider
and the dune 'is building up.
:1;:;'
Mr. Willet says SOYDU' re not'wi"1l ing to discuss any
other" options.
Mr. Wall says let's suppose he has access in 1985 and
1986 to dr i ve ,h is car. Let,' s ~uppC)$e ~ha t winter there are
winds that depasit 6 feet 0"1' sand iri this area. So he has to.
come in and move tM.,t sa,nd out af htltt"e in ,order to. get that
access again. I would think he would be able to do that.
Jus~ as a matter of course. I'm not sure if it's possible
anyone could construct anything out here to prevent the sand
from moving this way and you dan't.~eryknow where the sand
comes from because it shifts dramath:ally araund this hause
over fair I y shart per iods of time. Mr~, Champaux put together
a vegetation plan ,and all Mr. Anapo\>ca" do is a vegetation
plan on tMe prapef'ty he owns. He has no problem doing a plan
which he and Mr. Champoux thinks is the best they can do.
~aybe they can do that, they are not sure.
Mr. Perry says the cammission has suggested that maybe a
plan that would work is a t'ootpath at the corner ot'
Pennsylvania and Rhode Island up to the house, not an 8' wide
driveway through the dune.
Mr. Woll says but you've always had that channel through
there.
,-,~.,~.',"'~~';."NL.:""'--~;':~~~~~':"'::'<::::;';''';'';_':<.' ;.,_..__,,,._.__.~..:...._,,__,~ ___....._..~., _
.' ~.,~..__..,..".":.....~__,:,.,..;;.,,.....:.~~~t:<. j<-'2:"Z':);;,"~ '--'~'';;''''';'~'--j.;:'' '.-,.-....~ . '. ,_ -Iio. ,'-~..".,J'~:....;:,.;i-o;~..;,;..~~_..;.,_,__,_,___
l'
Additianal Special Conditions page 31
Mr. Perry says but YOu can see the sides ot' the cut.
T eyan! 6' above where the driveway is naw . That wa,s there
~n July. Now it's blown down Rhode Island Avenue. All the
and that was around the house ,is now migrated4w.y,from the
ouse. You can see the paint 1 ines on the t'oundatic," again.
Mr. Wolls~)'s but you've seen fram the phatas .,,"'ere ,that
ame access was there where the sand has been up and the
and has been down. We have photos where ~he whole
oundatian was exposed well bef()re this year. And ~e:.'ve had
pther times wh'rre the sand as been above the level and up to
.lthe concrete. .
I Mr. Perry says yes, yau have a sO,lid stfuctur" there with
shit'ting sands.
Mr. McColl says she doe,sn't. think we're arguing that.
Wt:la~"we:re arguing is the crea-tlon of a, dri.v~way wl;:lether. he
had It in 19~8 or 1985 or 1972. He h....allawed ii;to fiJl
in. He h~5.not used it far access t'or at least thtrEte or t'our
years.
Mr. Wo 11 sa ys if he I eaves in Sep,tefllber...
Ms. McCall says if he leaves in September arid co~sback
in April ~ndit was filled in.fter anewin,ter and cleared
at'ter 'ane winter it would be one<thing. But heailo""tt,~ i~",to
fill in andrevegetate and become an existing solid dune for'
three, ar t'our ort'ive years.
Mr. Woll says there was no vegetation in the. acrcess rOad.
Ms. McColl says it was vegetated in 1989 and 1990"be<=OJuse
she wo.rked at the house next door, she went by every Sa~ur"day
an<:i it was vegetated.
Mr. Woll says Mr. Anapol begs to differ with you.
Mr. Bachman suggests the board have a viewing at the site
and lQok at it in terms, Ot' access to the hau.e itself apd
determine it' it is possible to bring the access to the house
by another avenue.
Mr. Willet says that !'lad beens'r'ggested but Mr. Leddy had
said that was out ofthequestio"",tha~ there was only one
route.
Mr. Woll says maybe there was a misunderstanding abaut
what you meoantby ac;ceu~s! Maybe there's a way o,f ac<:essing
at:a.nother locationan~.cutting through and moving this dune
over and revegetatingeo you dan't have a channel coming
-./'"
:,:"~---,,,<(:,,-~'i<t~{.~.-,:~ ~ ., "'-''j;.l1-'4~':'-~T';-~''-''-.:,:';''_; ;;--
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-,
through like that.
dune which he owns.
Additianal Special Canditions page 32
I
I knaw there's a foundatian under this
Mr. Willet says we have been asking t'or same alternatives
and we have not been getting them.
Mr. Bachman says another pos~ibility is that this' section
ot' Pennsylvania Avenue is very close to -the original nattlr:al
grade again and Jt might be passible to come in this way
which might appease this abutter.
Mr. Perry says he daesn't. !See that cas any benet'it because
you're still coming acra.. the dune and shifting sand is
still blawlng into Pennsylvania Avenue and thec:ftine's
migrating that way so yau're going to. be cutting it there
too..
Mr. Woll says it' yau follow that ac:cess you're saying
that Mr. Anapol should hot have vehicular access to his
house.
Mr. Willet say. that'. what we were looking at because we
couldn't see any ather alternatives as far as if you're
tr:ying to stabilize>f5omething that sensitive, that dynamic:;,
you"ve got to. keep tihe impact to an absolute minimum. -And
that onlysEtems to make sense.
Mr. Wilson says and the access was chasen over the
highest point in the dune and it didn't work.
Mr. Woll says but the access has always been there.
Mr. Wilson says the paint where that access goes over the
dune is the highest paint of that dune mare or less.
Mr. Kelliher says he begs to dit'fer with that paint.
Mr. Woll says he does as well but let's suppose that
instead we putanacce9s through h~re and let this build up
and t'ill in, or "fIll it up purposely.
Mr. Bachman says the dune has already migrated past
there.
Mr. Wall says that maybe a possibility but I'm nat~ure
whether that isa solution that is acceptable. I think the
solution that is not {acceptable to us, that will cause a lot
of anguish, is that you deny Mr. Anapol access to his ,house.
Mr. Willet says he has to drive his car to his house..
Mr. Woll says yes, for any number of reasons.
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Aclditianil1 Special Conditions page 33
Dr.-Dunwiddie says we aren'tlrenYing access, he can park
his car and walk in.
Ms. McColl says the house ri, ht next doar to Mr. Anapal's
house does not have vehicular ac ease The people have to
walk to it. There i~ a t'ootpath up to. that house.
Mr. Wo 11 says that may be th 'i r choice.
,
Ms. McCa 11 says and they. 'sury i ve,
destroy a stabilized dur;ae so they can
~~~h:~d o~f t~:;~. t'ront door. It 't not
they do no~ ask us to
drive their car within
that t'ar to walk fram
Mr. Leddy asks it' he can correct the record. When he was
her~lf4i~h Mr. Champoux and. we were talking abaut direct
, aCC:.'ssfl.e did raise the question ot' relocating the access.
.t'r.. Perry says yau wanted to change the access so a
,>yehi,~le co.uld dr i ve through the dune to. the hause.
;')--f;,,- . ,," . ,-"';:".-:~~-.'. :
..'l'tt.(....eddy says this .was, very briet'. For the first time
~>i"::f;<,-- ....:.- '. .
..wh,ei')i"r'e..pcounteredi;lavi ngnov.hic:~lar access then briefly I
':",..t1:"t!'Pt,.d a discussion of trying4r"toj;her way and that was
9t.l~<:'~:~Y'dis<;:ouraged and we got t'ram then on tatall y t'ocused
dn ttle;,parki,ng spaCe question.
,Mr. Kelliher says fram 18 years of stabilizing dunes with
Chr~$~tJ)4streeswith the $itu.tior"t you have here with this
bulld6zed'blaw hole, the sand in this area is going to do
;oj)thi~g but blow down the road.
Mr. 'Kelliher says granted this dune is moving eastward.
Vegetation is going to slow it down. Bare $and is gaing to
speed up the movement at' sand and the dune down the road.
M.r. Wa 11 says maybe you br i ng it dawn here and make a jag
in the thing. What yau're daing is breaking the channel.
Mr. ..KelliMer says it' you break the Channel you're going
to slow down the movement of the unattached sand. If yau
have a wiggle in it it's goi'19 to slow it dawn; it's not
going to. stop it.. Evenb4i!ach grass wan' t stop it, it's gaing
to move gradually.
Mr. Woll saY1\iI thinl< even it' you t'ill this. up you aren't
going to stop th.is movement. What generatian is gaing to get
the benefit of slawing dOwn the movement. 1. don't know if
that is an issue we can answer.
. '~;'~:;~""7'.:~::::~:r",:_~~
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Ac:h::li tio.,.l Special Condi!tions page 34
Mr. Anapql says you and I know.if you PLlt up a snow fence
and it fills:uP th.e sand rolls right aver anc:l it s still
going to flow down.
Mr. Woll'says he thinks he sees the board's oncern which
he didn't,se, t'rom the minutes. 1;~is di.,,,ctts.io h.. been
veryhelpf...l.., thini(s i tmals~. .~.. tag..,,).".. end look.tl1p
alter.native, ,'for ve.hi.cular flC;c.:.ss 1;Q1;.,. sit... 'hinks.
everyone knC)w. 'in thi.ar... youiar.t'\';t going to 'er...anently
stabilize anything. Also. ,". yau.go,froll one $..on to
another and .t".saOOlnovespeopJ,.,.have a right fio ...intain
access to t~eirproperty .ang tCJIf1~V. ..,nq. beca~s.",ou... order
~~~sa~:~i~::tm.:v:r::~~t~W~~d:;~:its::~~::Yt:.t~:l:~:::~t~nand
bundin~$ therEton."
Mr. Per.ny.says the noticetal~s about sandhthatrw4. blown
up against the building rotting Ottt the sills.
Mr.Woll says egr'Etss to the proPerty and the buildings
thereon. That is clearly what YQIj,l,;,c;:annot deprive:tMem"of,
vehicular aCcess.
Mr. Perry .ays vehicular accEtss?
Commi$.iyoners ask why and ask.,t~t')"'e prove why the.
Commiss~on "t..as to allow vehicular access.
Mr. Woll says he's always had that.
Mr. Willet says hfi! would like to_ee somebody looking at
s~me other sort ot' access and some way at' stabilization.
Mr. Woll says
sand in this area
vehicular access.
plan.
as part ot' a stabili~atian plan for the
we will laok at dit't'erent methads 0.1'
Because a~cess is part ofa stabilization
Mr. Willet says you canlQo~ at vehicular access bu.t know
our t'eelings an vehicular access.
Mr. Wilson says if vehicul4r access jeopardizes the
possibility ot' stabilizing the sand then it is a problem.
Mr. Woll says possibility is a big word. We aren't
dealing with possibilities here. We're dealing with people's
enjoyment of prap~rty, with a hause there, they have a right
to have a house there, that's been established. They have
had vehi.c:ular access in the past. Someone maintained they
abandoned that. I don't think abandanment is an issue here as
a legal matter.
, -' JL:., ,;;Ie."". '~."""'~'~-K~'~~:';.aiii:~~~.i.~~,,~Q;i~.:iiIlL~' ~"""'~-""-';""':..,.";~-ic"'~:;;':':~~,',~'\.i;<"'--0;.,'''-~';;_'''::';",-,:,,~ <iT
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Add1t:ional Special Canditions page 35
Mr. Willet says he thinks we are on the'rigMt tra~k.
Mr. Wasierski asks it' Mr. Anapal's praperty gaes to Mass.
Avenue so that he has access t'rom Mass. Avenue.
Mr. Woll says no. Continues with a point as a legal
issue. ,Points out' two roads laid out on a plan that were
constructed; a...e"notpaper roads. ,It's clear under the law,
since i'tis a subdivision,th.at Mr. Anapol has a right to
have Rhode Island Avenue cleared t'or him to access his lot.
Access on his lot to his hause is another issue. He has a
right unde... the law to elear out that entire dune to give him
acc~ss. That's'notwhat anyone wants to do.
Mr. Perry says that taking something to the absurd, you
can laok at tiawkes place on Smith's Point. There is an
official.subdivisio.nout there and some of the'lats and roads
oarelJnder-water. Does he have a right to. clear a raad an
Esther's just because it is on a plan?
i,-. _{.>~(~
M....Wollsays he'stal'king something to the practical.
We're 1 l)at<i ng to maintain a much more limitedaceess to this
ar'.eatha.nhe has right now that he atMerwise would have a
right to.do in that this was a laid aut subdivisian.
.t11"'.\~r:i.C;h$en seys.doesn ....~ the. town and the state and the
fecleral 'government have a recjul-ation 'against plowing through
a co.a..taldune?
Mr. Kelliher says we'll go out an the next t'ield
in.pection and look.t'or an alternative route.
Mr. Woll says we'll go out and loak for alternative
routes and an overall stabilization plan for the area.
Mr. Erichsen asks what is the Board going to do about
stabilizing the dune this evening.
Mr. Willet says it would appear that we're doing nothing
this evening as t'ar as stabilizing it.
Mr . Erichsen says ,.wMat, may be donEf and when .
Mr. Willet says he doesn't know and can't give yau a date
but we are working to.,.ards that end.
Mr. EricMsen say. when will this be car....ied forth.
Mr. Willet says I do not knaw. As soon as possible.
They are coming backi.l"ftwo more weeks. We're going out on
another t'ield inspection to laok at same alternatives a week
Ji!"""f' ~
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Additianal Special Canditions page 36
from Monday. But as t'ar as a det'inite date I can't give you
one.
Mr. Wall says we will keep you in'formed by letter.
Mr. Pappageorge says any kind of vehicular acce~s through
that dune will be a blawhole, t'orever, with or without
vegetation.
b. Killen - 68WChester - SE48:'S9o - (41-370) minor mod
Present for the applicant is Mr. Glen Wills.
Mr. Wi 115 says they have t'i led to see i t' t,",eY;~R~;I~~ c l~.ar
out some of that nuisance wef!d - knot weed -to t~etwe'tland
line, it' possible for a year.
Mr.. Willet asks if they intend to put up any silt f'.ence.
Mr. Wills says yes.
Mr. Willet reads ~he inspectian report.
Mr. Wills shows the area where they want to try and
eliminate the, kna.1:we.ed a.rtef says they :4rewilling to replant '.
the 25' but'fer zone with a wooded species that's more usable.
Once they do. the initial cutting the maintenance can -be done
with a hand cutter.
Dr. Dunwiddie says don't go to the trouble 0.1' replanting
until you have a killed the knot weed.
Mr. Perry says they can plant same grasses.
Mr. Wasierski suggests Winter Rye.
Mr. Willet says it laoks goad and asks for a motion to
accept as a minor mbd.
Mr. Perry suggests tildding the cutting of the but'fer zone
is not a permanent right kind ot' guarantee.
MOTION: To allbw the request as a minar modification
is made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
c. Town Council Seminar - Tues., Oct. 29, 3:00-S:00p.m.
d. Tarpon - SE48-494 - (92.4-318)
Present for the app I icantj,s Attorney MeLissa Philbrick.
~'};
-
l'
Addi~ional Special Condi~ians page 37
Mr. Perry says they are ta
smal~:~::i:::~C:a::y:Di:h::9~
ing a huge hause and making it
the building envelape.
new owner.
Commissioners review the
MOTION: To acceptth newt'oatpr~nt is made and
seconded.
UNANIMOUS I
I
6..".....~ I
.
7. MINUTES: for October 10, 1991
The minutes were not accepted as the commissioners had _
not yet had an opportunity tQ read them.
::.:>.t."'i~
"~if> "',..i.' {". :';, ' , ",,,*-, .. '. ' .
. "a~"::lI;ffa.tS';~.'~BEPAID
9. f;IELDINSPECTIQNS: MQ041!it.y,lI<<ovember '1, 1991, 4:00
Mt\TZQN: To adjoufn.aflo:Oo p.m. is made and
!t4<<:a Oded . .
J~p):ft:r" "
',_ ";yd':'j-
!{::~ :.,.~. --.-~
UNANIMOUS