HomeMy WebLinkAbout1991-06-27
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Town of Nantucket
Conservation Commission ~
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
MEETING MINUTES. FOR .JUNE 27
The meet i ng was called .toord~r at 7: 01 in th Large Group
Instruction Room of the Nantucket High School. Commissioners
present were Wi 11 iam Wi llet, Laura Hussey, P~teri Ounwiddie, Henry
Wasierski and Daniel Kelliher"'. Also present were Bruce Perry,
Administrator, and Lucia Wyeth, secretary.
A. COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS FROM PRESS AND PUBLIC
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1. Coffin Park - Mowing discussion
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Present is Attorney Richard Glidden representing Robert
Haft and.Mrs. Smith and other people in the area who abut
Coffin: Par,k. St~tes he was here in behalf of Mr. Haft last
Dc tober~t ithet:fme, o.f the public hearing of the Park and , !
Recr~at,ic)f10epaptment I s RFDat which time plans were
presented. The,plans were only briefly discussed as it was
fel t that the, pOrpose was to discuss app licabi I i ty of th.e act "
apd if it was within your jurisdiction you would issue an
order on what could and could not be done. Everyone of the
neighbprs left the meeting with a clear understanding that
noth~ng was going to happen in Coffin Park until plans had
been filed and a Notice had been given and everything~as
operating according to the law. It was a great shock to the
neighbors when Monday afternoon at 3:30 a bulldozer arrived
and started to cut like crazy. Luckily Mrs. Smith was there
and as\ked what was going on'and asked him to stop. The
cutting continued a while; then Mr. Perry, after a couple of
phone calls, came, and then Mr. Gardner, and ultimately it
stopped. The story he heard was they were just cutting survey
lines so they could go in and flag the wetland. You can see
from the pictures they were clearly not just cutting survey
lines. If Mrs. Sm.ith tladn't been there~nd stoppec;j them, the
whole park would have b.en cut. In addition to the pictures
he has given the commission a letter from McGregor, Shea and
Dolinger representingsorne of the. abutters and they would like
the board to take some action. It is their position this is a
serious violation of the wetland's act. Is not a case of
maybe somebody didn'.t know what waS going on. Clearly you
people had told them not to do anything until they had filed
and they had made representations to the public that they
weren't going to do anything without notifying the abutters.
Shows complete disregard for your regulations. There is some
.~ recyded::: on some ;;e2~ ne~J;!1181.J.:2Z. th;;1~ t1~
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Town at Nantucket
Conservation Commission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
N antucket,Massaehusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes fQr June 27. 1~91
Page 2
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Town of Nantucket who is the owner and the Park,ard Ree's is
the applicant, maybe this is not going to be declll,t:with as
severely as it should. If this had been a private individual
who had done this kind of activity, I think its fair to state
the commission would consider criminal charges and consider
bringing penalties and fines and making them rest'ore' the
wetland. The neighbors want tq impress on the,cC),nlmission how
serious they think this is and they want to bek~~1;informed
of what's going ,on. They want the applicant toqpderstand
they have to follow the letter of the law~ fii.;~notice and
give the public <a chance to look at it and flag~n~wetlands
and have a full and open discussion. No one is,$!ayiD9 the
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park do.esn' t have the right . to do sQmething thetr".1They urge
the COl'flmiSsionto m,ake'i t c,leaL to~tje Park' ard ~~c:i's and the
TOwn of Nantuck~t' that this is serioJs busine~s.:;Jh two days
I have tal ked to two of .the neighbors and I unde~f3'tand there
are six more who ar-~ going to be Joining, if it' ~phles to that,
to bring suit to maKe sure that things are dOnE!, ~il'-operly.
Mr. Willet says they_did come in with a requ,st and we
told them to come back witha. notice.. It is mytirlrtderstanding
they were functioning per a letter, sent by Bent1C:Kelwayprior
to the hearing fO,r, the. Request for Determination~l which said
they could cut ~xisting path~ and grass. .
Mr.' Glidden $ays that letter was before the ftearing; even
if it lNasn't, what they did was a lot more tharij'ust cut some
grass.
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Mr~ Willet asks Mr Perry the extent of thedutting.
Mr. Perr-y says paths and a couple of fielqs;<(Jhe of the
fields he told them not to cut is half wet meadow. in the back.
Says Mr. Wilson was also present.
Mr. Willet asks fora vote to send a letter~elling them
not to do a thing in there. -
Dr. Dunwiddie asks whose decisiOn was it to do something
and why ar-e they doin~ it. ;
Mr. Perry says he thinks it was the Parks and Rec's
deci.sion based on the letter from Mr-. McKelwaydated December
\,l989 saying you must file for',the mowing that ha~ already been
@iecvcled:a~:re. They had done the path'~_ and ~~ wan'ted them to fi Ie
Tow.n of ......Nantu~ket
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Conservatioii Commlssion
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02654
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 3
after the fact. Then he had a discussion with Ms. Connors and
I think Jane Hiltz was the chairman then. And he said you
don't have to came in until the end of the year. When you get
your plans readyco.e in. Th~n there is a phone call
conversation in June of '90 with Anne Connors saying that Mr.
McElway said it WaS o.k. to mow thef?><isting paths. In
September they came in with a Determination which was positive
and stated that no work shall be done till you file a Notice.
My feeling is that Det~rmination should have superceded any
conversations or letters that went before that.
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Mr. Willet says absolutely, that's ~ery clear.
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Mr. e~r-ry contin~es as of July 1 the Parks and Recreation
will; have 'the fi.mdi.n9 to pay for surveying and flagging and
fili ng of a not ice.
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Dr. Dunwid~ie asks, so all the activity they were
representing as clearing survey lines to delineate wet'lands?
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Mr. perry says it wasn't stated that way to him. Jack
Gardner said they wer-e just brushcutting the existing paths
and that they had permission to do that. Says he told Mr.
Gardner hedidn\t.remember.giving them permission. The
determi'n:atfon said no work shall commence unti 1 the notice is
flied. It's definitely more than just survey lines. You
don't need to cut a whole field to run a straight shot.
Mrs. Sm.i th says she lives across the street and she has
never experiencedariything so brutal in her entire life
agai hst . the envU....onment wi ththe bulldozer blades just
whirling and all the wildlife just freaking out. Birds,
nests, little field mice. The guy was totally without
supervision. There was no one there from Parks and Ree"s
saying do this, dO that. His comment to me when I first asked
him to stop was "you people, you're so selfish. You're just
trying to keep this park for yourself." I told him it was an
environmental i5~ue and that nothing was to be touched in this
park until an environmental impact study had been done.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if it was a bulldozer.
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Town of Nahtucket
ConservatidnCommission
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(508) 228.7230 .
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket;, Massachusetts 02554
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(Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991 Page 4
::~.K:~:::e:S::Y:h:r:::m:::;::.take a look at it. Says
she has spoken to Fish and Wildlife and solt\e other. agencies
anq asks that Dr. Dunwiddie see if any other wildlife and'
mi~ratory birds might have lost a nest as a result.
Mr. Willet agrees to put it on field inspection"
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Mr. Glidden asks this be on the agenda for the next
meeting and the Parks and Recbeasked to be presen~.
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.M';... Willet .:igr-ees. .9aysin thEj! meantime .we will get a
l,etter tC1;ff to them st'atl~g very clearly that no wor~i of any
vari.~~should be done.
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Mr'. Smith says it was lush and green and is now ,a dust
bow 1 .
Mr. Wasierski says he t;hinks th.elush green was.:a weed-
Japanese Knotweed; something~nyo"e would love to et-adicate
from the island.
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Mr. Willet asks if anyone else would like to sp,ak on
1;his.
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Mr. Perry 'says he will schedule it for field inspection
and put it, on the agenda for the next meeting under other
business. Also a letter will be written to Parks and Rec.
with a copy of McGregor's letter.
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B. PUBLIC HEARINGS
1.' Newquist - 8 & 10 Fargo Way..... SE48-606 (14-15 ~61)
Pr-esent are Mr. and Mr-s. Ne~quist, Attorney Arthur Reade,
Lester Smith of Daylor Consulting and Ray Pohl from Design
Associates.
Present f~r the abutters is Attorney Melissa Ph~lbrick.
Mr.,' Smith presents two sets of plans: the approved
9/27/90 plan and the 6/7191 plan. Theohly si9nifi~ant
difference is the garage apartment has been p(Jlled~ack 5'
@ recYcl8d::;the wet land and merged wi th the house.. The landscape
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~'Conservation Commission
(508) 228-7g30
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
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\ Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
timbers on ;he edge of the parking area have been removed and
the slope i now more gradual.
Atto.rney Reade says this differs from what we presented
four weeks pgo. At that time we discussed the procedural
questions that had been raised pursuant to the court order and
you reopened and reapproved the September, plan. Later in the
meeting we ~resented the proposed modifications which differ
from the plan over on the left today in one respect which is
that the retaining wall shown on the September plans had been
eliminated as a result of a misunderstanding the zoning impact
of it would be. That has now been clarified and the retaining
wall is back in as it was approved. So the only change is
that the garage apartment has been pushed back so that it is
now a cormected pa.r-tof the h~use and the driveway timbers
which were not shown<on theDEP approved order have been
eliminated. This is less extensive by way of changes than
before.
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Mr. Pohl notes you had a concern about the lawn so we
pulled it back. Also, they have lost 100 sq. ft. of footprint
in bringing the~arage back.
Attorney Philbrick says she represents Pocomo Overseas and
asks for clarification of the finish height of the house.
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Mr. Pohl says the ridge on the main gable, which is the
central portion on the left hand side of the plan, will be
under 30' from finish grade.
Mr. Perry notes they are brjn~ingfinish grade up 3'.
Attorney Philbrick says the only other-question on this
plan is it 'shows area in front of the proposed house is to be
lawn from the patio to the top of the banI<:.
Mr. Smith says there is a 25' zone in which there will be
no alterations and then grass.
Attorney Philbrick states for the record Pocomo Overseas
has no further objection to this project to this commission.
MOTION: To accept the change as a minor- modification
is made and seconded.
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Town oJ . Nantucket
i-. "" '.
Conservation Commission
(508) 228':'1280
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Mihutes for June 27, 1991 Page 6
UNANIMOUS
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2. Richards - 25 E. Tri~tram Ave~ - SE48-609 - (31-1.)
MOTION: To continue for one month at the applicant's
request is made and seconded.
I.. UNANIMOUS
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I 3. Poor - Quidnet - SE48-635 (20-49, 50.2, 50.3; 21- 58, 119)
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4. Poor - Quidn~t - SE48-637 (21-122, 118.1, 119.1, 119.2)
',.; mf. Perr-y ~~ys ,Mr-. Smi th called to request the file be'
:icbnti~ued but( In! the meantime tM~re was a question of filing
fees 'that had not yet been submitted. At the last meeting Mr.
Poor said he' would submit the $1500 fee for the culverts but
he h~s not done $0. The~e is a form letter he has prepared
with the appropriate numbers that says he owes a filing fee
and the__commission does not have to consider hi~ fi Ie any
further until fee is submitted.
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MOTION: To send letter requesting fil ingfee is made
and seconded ,.
UNANIMOUS
MOTION: To continue at the request of the applicant
is made and seconded.
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UNANIMOUS
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5. Lane -West Chester St. - SE48--653 -- (41-478)
MOTION: To continue at the r-equest of the applicant
is made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
6. Craig - 1 Kimball Avenue -- (30--33)
Present are Mr. Craig and Tom Pochman.
Mr. Willet says there was some talk about cutting down the
size of the stairs.
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Town ofNant~cket
ConservatIon Cbttlniissi6n
(508)228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, . Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 7
Mr. Perry says he has received a modified set of plans
that is much reduced in scale. Had talked about putting a
boardwalk on the sanpand making the stair!;i removCilblesothat
as. the bank eroded you could slide it back. He draft~d an
order in anticipation we would receive a file number but DEP
cannot find the file.
Mr. Craig says the carpenter has provided interim stairs
which they have leaned on the dune.
Mr. Willet says he has no objection to that as an
emergen~y meas~re.
Dr. Dunwiddie says lots of people do that without asking.
Mr: W,asiers,ki '~ays he.thoUght the st,airs had been limited
to 3'. Notes they bavea ',satlboard whic:h they keep in an area
in back of the dune.' Suggests, a 3' wide ~stair with a rail on
one side to facilitate bringing the sailboard up the stairs.
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Mr. Pochman says theY would prefer a 4' wide stair"
esp~cially ifit only has one rail as Mrs. Craig has to walk
with, the grandchi Idren.
Mr. Wasierski' responds he r-eally doesn't have a problem
wi th a 4' .wide stai r.
Mr. Kelliher suggests 4' wide stairs and 2 rails and a 4'
platform at the top of the bank that the stairs, wi II attach
to.
Mr. Wasiersk i'no testhetrei s a,front dun~ and a secondary
dune beh i nd . Sand. i s 91owlog out of ,the.secondary dune into
the Rosa Ragosa and suggests they also apply for a 3' walkway
wher-e people could walk, rather than in the sand. Also
suggests putting up a snow fence in the winter.
Mr. Pochman says they would probably be interested in
eventually adding a walkway but right now they are mainly
interested in the basics and want to get.,accessto the beach.
Mr. Perry says.he has.no real opinion on the width of the
stairs although usually they are 3' wide. ,Adds he has drafted
an order pending receipt of the file nurnbe~from DEP. Asks if
~reCYCled:a: commission wants to close.
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Town ofN9Iltucket
Conservation Commission
(608) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
r antueket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 8
Mr. Willet says it is our policy not to close until we
have a number.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if it is going to be a removable set of
stairs.
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Mr. Pochman says yes and the platform can also be moved.
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Commissioners agree they have no objection to the stair
design and it will better the situation. The hear~n9can be
closed and the order issued at the next meeting upon receipt
of a file nu~ber.
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t' MOTION: TQ' contin~e for ,a file number is ~ade and
seconded.
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Mr. Pochman asks if the 4' is all right then?
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Mr. Willet says. yes as submitted in the plan.
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iMr. Kelliher says 4' stairs and 3' in the walkway.
There's no railing in the walkway?
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Mr. Pochman says no; you do want 3' in the walkway?
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Mr. Willet says as it is shown on the plan the walkway is
4' and we just agreed it was fine.
Mr. Pochman says we aren" t talking aboutcoht inui ngthe
walkway the whole way, just that top section.
Mr. Kelliher says he's talking about.the walkway going
down toward the beach.
Mr. Willet says that would besubmitted$epara~ely.
Mr. PochmansaY$ heiwants to clar i fyhere, bec..use that
will tie into, the platform, this will have to be 4'.
Commission agree the platform is 4. Anything additional
that is applied for WIll beS'. .
~ *7. Diehl - 44.Meadowview Drive -(56-297)
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Town of ,N.Cilltucket
Conservation . Commission
(508)228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 9
Present for the
Surveyors.
is Robert Emack, Nantucket
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Mr. Willet reads ~he inspection report. A waiver is
required for the wetland septic setback regulation.
Mr. Perry says sJme of the soil left from the test pit is
har-d clay; if Mr. Visco weY"'e here he would say it is a p~rched
wetland; they are just going to punch through the clay and
everything would be fine. That's what we've allow~d in other
occasions like Cabral.
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Dr. Dunwiddiesays YO\;l punch through the clay in a perched:
wetland and YOU dr-ain the,~etland.
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Mr. Perry say$ it's out$ide' the wetland; you're not
~uhching through it, specifically.
Dr. Dunw~ddie ~ays yoti~repunching through the clay layer
that makes the'wet l.md.
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M.r. Wasierski says you're right, it's making a drain point
for the wetland.
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Dr. Dunwiddie asks do they have 6' from ground water right
now? The field inspection report sounds like you don't have
6' now but you punch through the clay layer and it drains out
yo u have 6' .
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Mr. Perry says they didn't dig it out previously. There's
a leach field sitting in the clay layer and it isn't
functioning. So it's hard to say if there is 6' now.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks this is a repai'r of an existing
structure?
Mr. EMack says it's an existing three bedroom system. As
part of a real estate transfer you have to inspect the system.
as part of the Board of Health regulations and the leach pit
was foundto.,be'failed and has tbbe replaced.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if they have done test diggings and
know how thick the clay is going to be?
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Town . of,"'Nantucket .
,.,.:.._.'l::.{:~:~.." ::-,.. -,' -t~r;;_':'t\.-.;::_
Conservation" Commission
(508) 228--7230 .
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991 Page 10(
Mr. Emack says 11' to get through it. The area to be.dug
is 10'. Is about 15' away from th~crawl space. Do.esn't .
know the depth of the ground water now. There was no standing
water in the pit. !
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Mr. Perry says there is no ground water at 11'; the bottom
of the pit is at elevation 5 at the lowest so there will be 7'1
between the bottom of the leach pit. The known elevation does
not have ~round wa1l'er-. Ground water might be 3". past'that.
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Dr. Dunwiddie says it seems crazy to be digging through a
clay area that underlies a wetland. It would be a shame to
see them ponch thrqugh'and drainthEl! wetland into the septic
system.
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Mr. Willet asks if there are any other options on the
site.
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Mr. Emacksays under the State, it's an isolated land
sub jJtct to flooding. Undertoe, local. it 's a vegetCited
wetland, not very lar-ge, and separated from the pond area.
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Dr. Dunwiddie asks what is the elevation at the top of the
clay layer. Is it potentiallY down hill from the wetland and
could the wetland potentially ,be drained through the,septic?
Mr. Emack says he would say it is potentially feasible.
The actual clay layer is 3" down. You've got some not very
good soils above the clay.
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Mr. Willet asks if the old system didn't punch through; it
just sat perched up on the clay laYer?
Mr. Ef!la!:k $ayshe never viewed it so doesn't know if it is
a!:tually down through the clay or not. The original plan
called for the same thing but he is not sure if it was
installed properly. Was done 1Qyear-s ago when the house was
built.
Mr. Willet <says, if the originalsysteln was installed
properly the wetland hasn't drained but you don't think it was
installed properly.
Mr. Emack says he doesn't really know.
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Town p!,~~t1tfket
Conservation'.Commission
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(508) 228~7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991 Page i(
Dr. Dunwiddie asks if he knows what the elevation of the
wetland is.
Mr. Emack says it is pretty flat. The contours ar~ p~etty
flat.
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Dr. Dunwiddiesays since it.'s just a vEtgetated wetland aYld
not a very big one andlille'res,nottalking about polluting operi
waters I guess I'd rather take my chances in maybe adding
higher nitrates and phosphates to a vegetated wetland than to
risk losing the wetland.
Mr. Wasier"ski says let the veget.ation take care of it.
Mr. Perry says 1,-( yoy don' tpync,h through you'll have to
get a perk rate~hr'o,ugh tremches4 Rignt now you' r-e greater
than 2 minutes per Lnch.
Mr. Emac:k says the best peculation rather than going down
into_the clay would be closer t,o 1=he~\.l...face to get a better
perk rate. To mound the system would take a substantial area.
You'd be getting closer to this wetland. If you took the
existing you would be 40' rather than 50' if you add a trench
along this line.
Mr. Wi llet a,sksif he wants to take a look at that.
Mr. Emack says so you'd rather see it up than in.
Dr. Dunwiddie s9Ys that is his feeling.
Mr. Wasiersld says it seems if the clay layer is what is
holding all the perched wetland ther,eit doe?t)'t seem r.ight to
break through it cnddrcin the wetland. Unless someone can '
say no the wetland won't drain.
Dr.. Dunwidd iesays , yes, unless someone can say that.
Mr-s. Hussey says can you bring the clay back once you
punch through?
Mr. WasierskiSays I know wpat you're saying, bring the
clay almost back up to the surface.
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Town ..6fN'etntucket
Conser~a.h~n Commission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
P ag e 12
Mr. Emack says that's possible if we had a real depth to
groundwater. That's something we could investigate but we're
not that high in elevation.
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Mr. Perry summarizes the requests: look at the trench
idea and the elevation of wetl.nds in relation to the clay
layer to see 'if it's going down hill towards the location.
Even the small test pits, as soon 'as you dig down about 6",
you're into the clay; so the .hole area is going to hold
water.
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Dr. Dunwiddle says .if you punch a hole the water is going
to go down. And if it'~ relat:t.1.".ye,,1,y;flat i.t' has got to be
be~o~ ~~~t. J '
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MOTION: To continue for additional information and a
file number is made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
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* 8. Greenhill - 16 Hoicks Hollow Road - (23-1)
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Mr. Willet abstains from the discussion and the vote but
remains seated to make a quorum. Dr,. Dunwiddie abstains from
the discussion and the vote.
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Present for the applicant is Attorney Melissa Philbrick.
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Mr. Perry says the addition is behind the existing house.
Asks if they are adding the walkways which connect the
residence to the studio or is there one now.
Attorney Philbrick says there is one there now. Is bigger-
than what was there before. Is wider on the back side. But
is at no point closer than any of the existing walkways.
Mr. Perry says if the commission considers that new
construction within 50', then it requires a waiver.
Attorney Philbrick s.ays it is a matter of inches if. it is.
They are also adding a liyirlc.JrQom in back/of the house more
than 50' from the coastal/bank -- is all on the back side; no t
on the bank s de. . Isnotgqing any hig(1er. Points out a
@reCYcled:;;,~~osed park ng area which was not inc:luded in the notice.
Town 9.f Nantucket
~-'>,---,,:""'. ,--'-~.--')'->-:. .....;.~ - ,-.~>~
ConservaliO:h'Commisslon
(508) .228-7230
10 South Beach Street
N antucket, Massa~husetts 02554
Mr.
I Meeting
1illet asks, so the
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Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 13
question is howclose~he walkway
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Mr. Wasierski agrees is only inches. Asks for a motion
this is ~ minor modification.
Atto~ney Philbrick says she did it with a nEtW notice as
they.have already come in with modifications and she was
afr-aid it would create confusion. So this is the second
Notice on the property.
MOTION: To continue the hearing for a DEP file number
is made and seconded.
t
UNANIMOUS
Mr~ PE:!r...y Says he will draft an order for the next
meeting.
c.' REGULAR MEETING
1. REQUEST FOA DETERMINATION
*
a . Da vis
19 Mass Ave - (60.3.1-313)
Lot 4 ~. 5
* b. Davis.... 19 Mass Ave - (60.3.1-313) - Lot 6 ~ 7
't
Present for the applicant is Stephen Theroux and Glen
Wills o.f Nantucket Surveyors .
Present for the abutters is Attorney Rhoda Weinman.
Mr. Perry s~ys there are two determinations which wil,l
probably be discussed concurrently. Summarizes a.memo he has
written to the commissioners. Is actually four lotsco!llbined
into two on Smith's Point. There is an existing house on the
harbor side of Madaket on Massachusetts Avenue and also lots
across the street. The lots touch at one point in the middle
of the road and therefore aren't contiguous accor-dingto
zoning. One determination r-equests renovations to the
existing house which include adding a bedroom where there is
an existing garage and a couple of baths, removing a handicap
access ramp and a door on the patio on the beach side of the
.,~ house and the chimney. The other is for the lot across the
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Town of 'Nantucket
, - .>;': --,~, t:.~ ,- ,. ,. . ,- , '.-'- - -,'-'
Con'servQUon Commission
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(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
fti}
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991~ Page 14
street. They want to put a garage there but under z ning laws
they can't, they have to put a garage apartment and tat's
where the rub comes. The reason is, a garage is an a cessory
structure. You cannot haveanac:cessory structur~ ~i,!thout a
primary dwelling so, in order to have a primary dwelling, you
have to have a bedroom there. They don't want ahou~e so
instead they are going to put a bedroom above the ga'fage which
makes it a dwelling which makes it legal to put on tllat vacant
lot.
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Attorney Weinman says this is required in a residential
zone; in a commercial zone it would be allowed.
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Mr. Perry says just remember this is a determination level
filing, so you need to determine whether or not you,need a
no,tice of intent for this work. They are actually a.dding two
bedrooms to the existing septic system which was lost,alled in
1973. Presently we have no information on its separation from
ground water-which, 1 a.ssume, is less than 6'. Notes that
Dkonak's separation turned out to be less than 4' and that was
installed in 1<;173. His opinion is there is a chance the
existing septic is already polluting the ground water because
of the lack ofseparatibn. It~oes not have the presumption
of Title V which says that if it meets Title V then it meets
the protection of ,the resource areas in the state Act; it may
or may not .meet our Act. The other point is Glen Wins stated
at the site inspection that the lea.ch trenches are outside our
jurisdiction more than 100' away from the toe of the dune
which is in front of the<house next door. But the commission
does have jurisdiction over "a.ctivities outside the buffer
20nenot subject to regulation under the act and does not
requi~e the filing ofanoticeof intent, unless andLuntil
that activity actually alters an area subject to protection
under the act." (310 CMRIO.02(2)(b)}. His position is with
the existing information the Commission has, he feels the
existing septic system is probably polluting the ground water
and going into the harbor.
Mr. Willet says probably or actually.
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-''';;::'"?'':~~-;ir:~'r~-''{~~;~-'';
Town of Nantucket
Conservation Commission ~'
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts, 02554
I
Meeting Minutes.for June 27, 1 91
Page 15
Mr. Perry says we don't know; we don't know t
separation. If they can prove five or six feet t
water, that's a different story. But with the ex sting
information that we have on this determination, we don't know.
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Mr. Wills says they did not do the septic sys~em as-built.
That was done by Hart-Blackwell. Richard Ray has received a
copy of that plan with a letter from Epple certif\ying that the
system is in working condition. It has a capacity for five
bedrooms. Its transfer~nce hasb~en verified by Richard Ray
and signed by Richard Ray.
Mr. Perry says the informa,t ion suppl iedto Mr. Ray was
they dug up the length of the leach trenches. They figured
how lon(;J they were and dug down to the bottom to determine
what the soils were around it and then said according to the
diggings this is what the peculation for this leach trench
would be and it can be a five bedroom system; no one knows
where ground 'water is.
Mr. Theroux provides a copy of the letter that describes
what was found on that system signed off by both Mr. Epple and
Richard Ray.
Mr. Perry continues he thinks the biggest problem under
Title V is that they can't hook up the garage apartment to the
existing septic system. The Title V regulations 15.02 (18)
state the use of a subsur-face sewage disposal system by more
than one lot is pr-ohibited. In this case one leach facility
is going to be used by two different lots.
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Dr. Dunwiddie asks about the perk test; as he understands
they just dug it up and then turned on the faucets and
concluded that water do~s run down to the septic 'system and
therefore it works? I could have told them water would run
through a pipe that didn'.t have a block in it but that doesn't
mean the septic system works. Is that a standard inspection?
Mr. Theroux says that's what the engineer has described.
Mr. Wills says ,that is all that is, required by the new
Board of Health Regulations for pre-1982 systems.
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Town of NantuGket
1 _: ' ~ ' ~,;! ", -.',i
~ ConservaJion .ComIIllssion
(508) 2~~7230
10 South Beach Street
N antucket, Massachus~tts 02554
{I Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991 Page 16
Mr. Wa ierski says I almost asked that of an applicant a
little whilbackas to hotrJ they determined it had failed. If
the toilet I till flushes apparently it hasn't failed.
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Mr. Pe~ry says we are not bound by Board of Health
regulations. The separation of the exist.ing well to leach
facilitiesiis 130' instead of 150' required under the current
Madaket regulations. He has identified a couple of studies
and a list of reference that the Commission received during
the FrancisNDIs regarding nitrate travel in his memo. If
they can't use the existing system they ~ill have to construct
another to handle the garage apartment or they can't build an
apartment and garage.
Mr. Wills say?;what We haVe is 1;wo requests for
determination filed separately. 'Reviews the proposed
activity: removal of front entry way and handicap access ramp
and repla~emen~ of existing doors and windowsftrim and
possibly some Shingles, and relocation of existing chimney
that is inside thefstruct~reto the exterior. The chimney is
not working. Ther-e is no change in footprint or roof pitches.
Interior wise they want to remove the garage door and replace
it with a wall with shingles and then renovate the inside
which includes the addition of 1 bedroom; there are currently
three. Note in 1985 Mr. Kehlenbeck filed a determination and
at that time they found the proposed work, which was the
addition of the ramp ~nd enclosure of an existing porch, that
the work was within your jurisdiction but would not alter.
Commission agree they have no problem with the
reno~ations; it is the added bedroom.
Mr. Wills says whether or not we add one 0.... two bedrooms
to that system isamoot point. There.c3.Son is, if we consider
the deter-minationof what would be.the edge of the wetland
being the very landward edge of that durie, which would be the
face of the neighbor's hou~e, the septic system f....o~ the
landward edge of that dune is 150' horizontal. The leach
field was i.nstalled in compliance ~ith Chapter XI whi~h was
the existing Board of Health code. Horizontally we are 280'
from the waterline of the existing harbor.
Mr. Perry says with
have the presumption of
,,~. system may be 120' from
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the .informatlCln we have now you don't
meet ing Tltle>V~ Even though the
the toe of the dune, in my opinion it
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Town of !;~fucket
Conservation; .:Commission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
MeetinqMinutes for June 27, 1991
Page 17 (
still falls under.our jurisdiction for potential pollution of
the ground water.
Mr. Wills says there is an,exi>sting system in the
The presumption concerning Title, V in the regs is for
construction of a new system. We're talking about an
system that is capable ofser'Ving 5 bedr-ooms.
ground.
the .
existing
,
Mr. Pen-y says it isn't u,ing five, it is only using 3
bedrooms. You're expanding the u~e. The historical use of
this system is3 bedrooms.
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" ,Mr. Wi II ssayseven if th~ system doesn I t work. and had to
pe';r::eplaced" the' work thatwopJdt>e proposed to replace is
still more tt1an 1()()' from ttle;.1andward edge of the dune.
Mr. Pen-ysays at that time you can come in anp propose
replacement of a f.ive-bedroom,mepeting current regulations,
system. But right now, using tha..t system, we shouldn't be
addi~9 2 morebedroomst,o it--not a.t determination level,
because of the information we have now.
Mr. Wasierski says he agrees.
1
Mr. Willet asks, so you're recommendation is to file a
notice for this?
Mr. Wills says a notice for what? We aren't proposing any
wor-k to the existing system,
Mr. Perry says.you are proposing to add a bedroom to the
existing system, increasing the flow of this system. With the
information I have now that wa$ submitted in this
determination, andba!?ed on when it w~s installed and the
informationtha.t. we have On nitrate travel, we don't know if
it is polluting the harbor. I feel that it is.
Mr. Willet says to Mr. Wills, and your point is the
presumption is that it is'working and it doesn't pollute the
groundwater?
Mr. Wi lis says yesandquotesafl addition tot,he statement
from 310.CMRIO.02C21CC>refi!!renced. by Mr. Perry: "In the'
evehtthattheissuingauthority determif"1es that such an
J;1i/.. . activity has in.fa.ct altered an area subject to protection
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Town of Nantucket
Conservatl6n Commission
(5Oa)228-7230
10 South Beach Street
N~ntucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 18
under the act, it shall impose such conditions on the activity
or any portion thereof as. it deems necessary to contr ibute .to
the protection interests of the act." There is no .eviclence
here that states that the septic system has altered a wetland.
Mr. Perry says there is no evidence that it has not. It's
up to you to prove to us that it has not.
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Mr. Wi lIs says but the laws stat:e there has to be actual,
physical evidence that it has altered a wetland. We're
stating that it is 9u~side your jurisdiction.
Mt-. Perry says in the relation to the dune it is out?-~de
our jur.isdict ion but. groundwater protect ion is wi th in; I feel
it is a~tering thegrOl.lndwater.
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Dr .Ounw~ddie ask;:5 why do you want to do this as a
request?
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Mr. Wills says he was brought in after it was filed. The
lot itself for the construction of the garage, if it were to
go in just as a garage, is clearly not subject to the act and
would not require filing either a notice Or a. determination.
,Dr. Dunwiddie says! think you are just making a mess for
yourself. Whatever we decide is going to get appealed and
chances are it's going to end up being a notice anyway so why
don't you just save yourself alot of work.
Mr. Wi.lls says it's two separatefiling$. C:learly the
commissloncan act on the request that the lot .on the other
side fo.r ~he. garage location is outside your Jurisdiction.
Dr. Dunwiddiesays yes we could do that but then someone,
I suspect, will appeal. So where are you?
Mr. Wi Us says there is no gr:ound for appeal.
Mr. TherOUX says we filed the request after speaking with
the building department who told us before they could do
anything we would have to come to you. It was not our intent
to cause .arty harm but fo llow the necessary .procedur-e.
Attorney Weinman says she thinks part of the request is
~ inappropriate at this time--to use the existing septic system.
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Town Qf.l;lantucket
Conservation' Commission
(508) 228-1230'
10 South Beach Street
.--N antucket,M~sachusetts 02554
I
\ Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Says $ e ha$ " C.OPY of the regul at ions and a letter from
Richer Ray basically saying it is unacceptable.
Mr1 Willet says Mr. Ray has already o.k.'d this system.
Page 19
Attorney Weinman says no, Mr. Ray has not o.k.'d it.
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Mrl.Perry says the p Ian that Mr. Ray saw wa's for' the house
and the leach trenches only. ~e did not seethe plain that
showed the garage apartment ti~ing into the system. :i
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Attorney Weinman says part of tne problem was the
i nformatio,n Mr. Ray had was thiit they were .cont iguou'$ lots and
he made his deter~ination bas~a on that information~ . Tfielots
, - - - -, ' ~
are' clearly not'.'and I have casF law to support that and based
on the fact they are not contiguous I have a letter from Mr.
Ray today that says it has be<:ome evident under reexamination
of Title V .....that multiple use will not permit pr-()posed
i nstallat ion of an apartment over the proposed garage. '.. . .
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~ Mr. Wills says that what happens on that lot is ~omething
I
1\ that Mr. Ray will have to deal with later; is totalliy separate
'L , from the house issue.
J
Mr. Willet asks what do you want us to do? Do you w~nt to
withdraw this?
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Mr. Wills says no. What we're stating is that we
under-stand wha.t Mr. Ray has said today and at that time if the
new owners still feel they want to pursue sdmethingwewill
look at options on the lot at that time but it woul~not
include use of the existing system.
Mr'. Wi llet says so there are going to be c:hange~but you
want us to act on something that is not going to work here?
Mr. Theroux says we'wantto just focus on the house. We
agree the tie in of the garage apartment to the existing
system cannot happen because of TitleV. .
Dr. Dunwiddie says 'what you're filing is pr-esuming it is
going to .tie in.
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Town of Nantucket
Conservattbti Commission
(508)228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 025P4
i
I Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991 Page 20
Mr. Theroux ays it was not until this afternoon when we
realized the errr that we coUld not tie into the existing
system.
I
Dr. Ounwiddi!e says SQ why don't you change your request.
and erase that little.tie in connection to the septic system.
i
Mr. Theroux \says it was too late to cancel.
Mr. Wills says they did not hear from Mr. Ray until 4:00.
,.
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Mr. Ronald Messinger, an abutter, asks wh~ didn't you
state that from the beginning instead of waiti..ng till it was
brought out. These gentlemen just went through the e,ntire
proposal. 1 see a 1 ~of you nOd"d ing your head . It is not
.clear what theyar;egoiM ,tot do'. Theykn~w they had a problem
and the.y d idn 'ttelJ you untii ~ . you brought it up. Is that the
correct way tobr iog a proposal in here,?
Mr. Willet says we got down to it in the end, though,
didn't we.
Mr. Theroux says it was not their int.ention to hide the
facts. ~e were just acting on some late information that we
had received. It is our intention todo,only what the
commission and the ~bdes and thel.wprpvide we can do. And
no way do we set out to harm the environment. The Owner and
potent ial buyer ,has aright OD the property f of course under
your jurisdiction, to work on his dwelling.
Dr. Dunwiddie says if this is not going to be tied into
i;hat- septic system the.n. what ac:tivities..are you propo,sing that
~ould be SUbject to our jurisdiction that you are filing your
request for.
Mr. Wills restates the renovation including the 1 bedroom
on the existing house.
Dr. Dunwiddi~ says, and your concern is the one bedroom?
Mr. Perry says yes.
Dr. DunwiddieasksAttorneyWeinmanifshe has any comment
wi th regard to the, referenced section in 310 CMR in terms of
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Tow.n qf .,Nantucket .
Conserv~U~Il ;C6~mission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting MinlJtesfor June 27, 1991
Page 21
whether there shbuld already be a demonstration that it is
negatively impacting~
,
Attorney Weinmcm says her feeling is the determination for
the house needs to be looked at separately and can be
discussed. In that regard she has some well studies that have
been done that will show how terribl~ it is at Smith's Point.
Thinks the second determination shol,Jldn't be before YOU; what
they .are proposing obviously can't b~ done and should be
withdrawn.
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Mr. Wills says he thinks the commission can look at the
!; res:J4est asa request to build a buildirtg, whe.ther a dwelling
~;' ;O,ri C;igar~ge, on that lot. Whether' or not it can be completed
" " due I th other concerns , the commission has the responsibility
tb act on the request and fitlc:fwhether or not an activity will
alter an area or not, subject topr-otection under the act.
Says the lot where the work is proposed is clearly outside the
100' buffer zone.
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Attorney Weinman says whether or not it is outside the
buffer she still thinks it is with.intheir jurisdiction. We
'have a serious pr-oblem at Smith Point~ The application that
was before you a month ago, th. minutes of the meeting clearly
indicated the area was between. two barrier beaches and waS an
extremely fragile area. We've got data.Of 18 wells that was
done in 1986; the water was recommended not for human
consumption in some of the wells. Every single one had sodium
well above the recommended limits. Presents a copy of the
study. Thinks it should be within you.r jurisdiction and the
septic system should at lea.st have a pr-oposal.
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Dr. Dunwiddie says that's all elevated sodium; all the
concern with the septic would be nitrate loading.
Mr. Wills notes everyone tested is below the recommended
limits.
Mr. Messinger says his neighbor's well just failed and it
was replaced. As I'm.sur~ you're all awar-e,some Df thewells
are as shallow as 10'. We are get't;ing rust. We are drinking
bottledwater-andthereare many other abutters here and >1
think they.wiIltell you we have twice as much development as
we should. We cannot stand any new development. We are
r~reCYCIec!;a~:;ing out of water.
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Town of Nantucket
Conservattort':'''Comnrission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
N antucket, Massachuset~ 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 22
Ms. B~rbara Veno says she is a year round r-esident. Every
year around August the water gets worse. Remembers a talk
given I:lY Mr. Klein tottle Smith Point Associ~tion a few years
ago hespecific~lly said the only reason that we had water in
the sUlTlmerwas because we were only three people living there
in the winter. In the summer there is no~ 55 houses. In Mr.
Klein's opinion at that t.ime we were aln~ady over built. In
my opinion this garage apartment is a new house.
.
)"
Mr. Wi! IElt says he doesn' t think we al~e talking any more
about the garage apartment.
Mr. Wills says he still thinks the commission can make a
determination On the lot.
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Mr. Willet retracts his comment. Says you are right, we
are still talking about it.
Mr., Wills also notes the testing analysis tha1; AttornElY
WeinmanprovideQ was for the ti;me period July 22 to September
22. A1.so asks the commission to explain how on the 16th of
May they made a finding to allow an additional bedroom for a
septic system that was installed approximately the Same time
in the ar-ea.
Mr. Perry says that was on Rhode Island Avenue and they
went through the same discussion as we are having now and the
septiC ~ystem was located at least 100 feet further from the
harbor.
Mr. Wills asks if that system waS closer- to a wetland.
Mr. Willet says .yes, it was close to a dune. We had a
little more detail information. It was further from the
harbor.
Mr. Wills says they are outside the buffer zone and that
approval of any activity that would go on in that lot that
does not tie into the existing septic.system would be a
necessary first step to making a proposal to the Building
Department.
Ms. Cheryl Creighton of the Nantuc,ket Land Counci 1
.~ ,eCYcled:;:,sents a letter for the fi Ie stating the reasons why the 2
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Town of Nantucket
Conserva'ti6Il\.:;c6rii~i~sion
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 23
requests do not meet state and local regulations and therefore
must both be reviewed together' 'and as well must be denied.
Says one of the responsibilities of the commission is, to
coordinate issues of environmental concern with other agencies
and therefore thinks we cannot make a decision at this point.
Notes that installing a septic .system that can handle
increased capacity without building to that capacity has been
represented by engineers in the past as being environmentally
preferable to installing a 9maller system. Feels the
commission is being put in the middle of an awkward situation.
Is a fragile area, close to the har-bor, having a sha110w
ground table and not muCh open land On that barrier and they
don't ,have information with which to evaluate .i:f the current
,system meets today's regulations. Does not think they should
'b~in!re~sing the loading capacity without the information
requested. Concludes there has been a lot of confusion and
misrepresentation this evening regarding this.
J. ,
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Dr. Dunwiddie says the central point is in regards to our
jurisdiction, since we're talking about an area that is more
than 100', and what the section on the regulations that Mr.
Wills read, means. In the event that the issuing authority
determines that suchan activity has in fact altered an area
protected under the Act, would seem to mean we have to
demonstrate that it has in fact. They don'~ have to say that
it's not altered.
Mr. Perry says that's true but what I'm saying is that it
is altering, so it's up to them to prove that it is not.
Dr. Ounwiddie says what evidence do we have that this
activity is altering? I agree with everything Ms. Creighton
said.
Mr. per-ry says based on the information that we have, we
don't know if it meets the presumption of Title V.
Dr~ Dunwiddiesays how is this activity affecting.
Mr. Perr-ysays in his opinion the septic system is
altering the ground water, start with that statement. I also
said that with the information we have<curren.tly it doesn't
meet the presumption of Title V, only because in 1973 there
wasn't the care of installation we have now, there wasn't the
~ 6' separation fl-om ground water we have now. Another section
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Town of ~antucket
Conservatfon ' Comm.ission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
I Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991 Page 24
of the regs. ays if the septic does not meet Title V it's up
to the appli ant< through a preponderance of evidence .to prove
to the commi sion that it will not harm the resources. Since
we don't .kno~ it meets Title V, and there hasn.tbeert any
information submitted that it does, then ,how Can there be a
preponderanc~ of evidence to prove that it doesn't harm the
resources?
Mr. Willet asks if we could find where groundwater is out
there. Is that an outrageous request?
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Mr. Wills says he wishes he hadbrpugtit it with him.
Horsley has done a recent ~round wa~e~study and he believes
the contour. elevation On Smith Point is QI"televation 2. We
ar-e in a Zone Barea.,and .,theseptic i~{ in20neCwhich is the
500 year storm areo'wt1ic:h means ,at' 'a minimum is above
elevatiot'i 10 per the USGS Quad map.
"
Mr. Willet asks(if we could have that infor.mation for the
file.
Dr. Dunwiddie says it wouldn't take much to get a lot more
information than that.
Mr. Wills thinks the thing that is getting a little
confusing is the presumption to Title V that Mr. Per-ry keeps
referring to. Whether it meets Title V or not-- I wouldn't
say it's a moot point because we would like to make sure it
meeti Title V, as a minimum, it should, from an environmental
standpoint. But we aren't proposing to construc.t something so
it's not r-elevant. We don't have to prove that it meets Title
v.
Mr. Willet asks if they would like to reconsider the
proposition or- would they likea vote.
Mr. Wills says as far as building a g.arageapartment, g.oes,
they know it cannot be tied into the existing system ,and they
will be willing to make that modification now. Thinks the
commission can act on that request. On the other request they
would lIke to check with the Davis's f.irst but would like to
continue for two weeks in order to provide the requested
information as to where ground water is. They know in Hatt-
Blackwell's work they dug down 41/2'. from the ground surface
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Town ..o..........f._.f.r. N...........~...........t...uc~et
Conservati'brt<' .Cc>mmission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket,. Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes fOr June 27, 1991
Page 25
to the bottom of the leach trench. They will confirm this but
he thinks it will meet Title V for- separation.
Mr. Wi llet asks why don't you just put the whole thing pff !
for two weeks.
Mr. Wills says he will have to confer with the Davis's.
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Attorr'ley Weinman comm~ts on the Perkins-Jordan report
which is the water study report in 1964. Reads into the
record the information on New Smith Point area and provides
copy. Says the area west of Hither Creek is virtually
isola1ed! by sal"t water" a.nd the rest of the island by the
,creek., The ar.~a's rel.ativ'enarr.owness and flat topography
pt-everhs the dervelopmentof a thick freshwater lens and,
therefore, the aquifer is particularly sensitive to both the
amount of water withdrawn from it and to how much septic
effluent is added to it. Continues with the fact that there
are currently 57 houses in' the ar-ea and concludes that the
exisJ;!ng houses represent the maximum the area can support and
recommends that further building be prohibited in the area
west of Hither Creek. Says she has been there since 1976 and
it has been a gradual situation but the water this year is
brown and she has no water pres~ure whatsoever.
,.'
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Mr. Wills asks for a ~ecess to discuss the situation with
the Davis's.
Mr. Wills says after conferring with the Davis's what they
would like to do, with the commission's permission., is
withdraw without prejUdice the request for determination of
the garage apartment. The~pplicationfor improvements to the
existing dwelling they would like to retain and ask that the
commission make a determination and we will provide to them
the verification if it exists that the system meets the Title
V separ-ation requirements from the facility to ground water
tomorrow~
Mr. Willet says wewoU.ld like to see that information
before we make the decisiOn
Mr. Wills says i f thei~ystem does not comply to Ti t ie V it
will be brought up at a minimum to Title V requirements.
@.recyCled paper
. Town of Nqntuckc~t
. Conser" ~ttbti' 'Com:mis~idn
(508)228-7200
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket;. Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 26
Mr. Wasierski says this septic plan doesn't have enough
information on it. For example, it does not address the use
of..a garbage disposal.
Mr. Wills says that is all theao~rdof Health requires
for the ~ransfer of property.
Mr. Wasierski says he is surprised it doesn't address a
garbage disposal wi th 10qo gal. ta.rtk-,.
~
t
Mr. Wills says you and I knowl~Q() gal mlnlmum is required
for a garbage dispos~lso it is quite obvious it is not
permitted. Agrees it doesn't say that but says they did not
do the plan work.
Mr. Werry says: we don't have to determine tonight as we
have 21 days todec:ide and th,eapplication.wasn't complete
unt i I Tuesday ,of th i s week. . ~~commends the hear i ng be
continl,led.
, .::
~ :
Mr. Wi llet says-he would like tQ I;<eep thehearin9 open
until you get this information to us but it is up to you, if
you would like the vote tl1at'$fine.
Mr. Wills says they would liksto continue for two weeks
and they,willpr-ovide the requested information. Adds they
would like to request that if any additiogal information is
presented to the board by abutt,.ersthat.th~y get copies a
little bit earlier.
Mr. Willet...ys ~hatis a reasonablerequest~
Mr. Wills says he will provide that information to you
tomorrow mornirtg.
MOTION: To continue for additional information is
made and seconded.
UNANIMOUS
2. ORDER OF CONDITIONS
a. Gamble - 90P9como R6a.d - SE413....654 - (15-43)
. . Mr. Perry says he 'ti\as received no commen1:son .the draft.
. ~ .,ecvcled pape,
1'q~~"i~\(~~\U.::'q.k. ,~t
. ";":""'-.:~".. -:~"i~,,,-.,,~J,,, ~ '.'> ~:,- "''> ' ,
.CoIl:s~rV'ation. .' C()JnIl1ission
.'t- .
,-, ~ !~;O:' .-', .'
(508) 2~723(f'
10 South Beach. Street
N antucket, M:~usetts 02554
Meeting Minute$ for June 27, 1991
Page
t
seen any formal language. It is a clone, literally, of other
conservation restr ic t ionsonth~is landacc::epted by the Land
Bank and has been reviewed by Town CounseL The prohibitive
uses are the same, the reserverights>arE!Fthe Same. What
varies is the amount of restricted area and what portion ~f
the lot is restricted. The're is a plan that is attached to
~~r~~iet~~tc;~tif~w~i~~~c~~n=r~~eT~~:~:~;~~lg;:n~~~~ :~:eonr
restriction has" a ,right to. do it and then if there is any bank
statement attached to it. I'm prepared to d~ that; there's
not a problem with the mortgage on the property. The second
is that the exhibit attached clearly, easily identifies the
rest~icted are~.
~. i ~ . (, ",~'
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~r. Willet ~sk~ Mr. Perry if he has h~d a ch~nce~o go
back over the minutes to see if it is what we discussed.
~
Mr. Perry says from his ~emory we intended to restrict
even a garage being built there but he will check the minutes.
-~Mr. Willet suggests we continue to verify the document
ag~inst what was agreed.
Or. Dunwiddie asks if the two .pieces can be connected.
Feels conservation areas should be madecontiquous.
Attorney Phl1br-ick agrees to have the engineer do so.
\
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b. Rauch RFD - 84 Baxter R04d - <49-37) - minor mod
Mr. Perry says this is for, a lot out on Baxter Road. We
approved by a determ.i nation for an addition. They asked for a
10' deCk and we 1 imitedci. tto 8.'. They now want to extend the
deck to thes~rru~r.togo out the utility door. The problem is
that it goe~~iri5ide.the50' buffer.
Dr. Dunwiddie sayss,othey<filed for a bigger deck, ....e
told them to cut it doWTi and keep it out of the 50'; nOW they
want a biggerdet:k, back in the 50'. Tell them "no".
MOTION: To deny the modification is made and
secol"ded.
UNANIMOUS
~~..tecvcJedpaper
Town ?~.,~W1~~8~~t
eonservat'i(S'nl"coIkmls~lon
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
I
I Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
c. Annua discussion - Airport pipeline
Mr. Perry says part of the requirement of th~ Cert.i.ficate
of Compliance! was that they come in once a yeart~ telL us .
what's up'with the pipe line.
Page 30
,
Mr. JaegEtr says it is doing wonderful and a. lot lass
often. Our i t1g' th~past year they have negot,iatE!dan agreemeflt
with Harbor Fuel to rUn all, of our je,t .fuel into their
facility using' an old kerosene storage.f.acilitythere.Since
jet fue} is 2/3 to 3/4 of all the fuel that we move, .we've
been able to reduce the use of the 'pfpe,1ine drastically..
Last year they ran 452,666 gal. of fuel total. If w:e"hadh~~
this same operation going last year it would have r-educed that
to 118,000 gal. To put that in p.erspec;tive the airport gas
station so l;d :?OO, OOO'ga i. of c:;J cl$.<Pl l.Ti\e last year. So we 'r e
talking about a very small volume of fuel being transferred
through the fuel transfer facility.
f
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Dr. IDunwiddie asks how many unloadimgs is that.
,~.'
Mr. Jaeger says it is about 6 per year, about 30,00Q max
per trip. The delivery is largely concti;!ntrated in the summer
months. They don't sell much fuel in the winter and1;hey sell
even less AVgas. Most of the air carriers at the airport u5e
jet fueL They bought 20,000 of AVgas in November and didn't
buy any more unt i 1 Apr i L
fi
Dr. Dunwiddie says he thinks the commission is mostly
interested in hear i ng about you.... prob lems in terms of what
difficulties you have encountered in 'unloadings if any. What
has broken. What has not perfoTHl'Ied as designed.
Mr. Perry says about 1 1/2 years ago a float got broken
off.
Mr. Yaeger says none. Continues, in times of severe
northeast storms we've had SOme problems with the float but
not when using it. Th~y have n:at spilled one drop.on the
ground or on the water when using the pipeline. It has been
very, very c:arefullymonitored.
Dr. Dunwiddie asks how long he has been here. Is
wondering if the safety measures that were installed in ter-ms
~. of absorbent pads, etc., having the fir-e departm~nt on si te,
:y recycled paper
I
Town o!....Narltucket
Conservati6rt Commission
~
.}
(508) 2W1280
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
MeetingMin~tes for June 27, 1991
Page 31 (
availability of the emergency people, whether all that is
cont i nui ng a'S-' or igi na 11 Y P lClnnet;i. Whether there are" any
shortcuts being taken.
.f;
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Mr. Yaeger says he has been with the Airport since last.
October. And it has even gotten more complex. They do have a
third party detail from the fir.e department present a~ all of
these operations. ThE:!Y do have a full storage shed full of
absorbent materials to be used if necessary.
,........:!'ll...'...'.....\...
" ~;.~:,\ I"~;
~f~'~ ' i -to
, . r
Mr. Perry says he is notified when deliveries occur and he
goes down at random.
'Dr. ':'Qu~wIJdie asks if he has even seen any.thing gqing on
that :is .cdncern.
~,~
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1'1
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Mr. Perry says a couple of the early times that they were
unloading they left product in the pipeline but he is told
that doesn't happertany longer. They were supposedtodr~in
it out ~ That came out in the paper that the pipeline remained
full ""between unloadings.
.'/",\
Mr.. Yae~er says the emplC1yee that was involved with that
is nO longer with the airport. The pipe line is de~igned so
that should the valve be opened on both ends it would drain
back into the'barge. Each end has a containment tank that
would contain the whole contents of the ~ipeline if for
instance someone just opened it and dumped the fuel. out .of the
pipeline. It's a very simple device. People keep calling it
a pipeline. I'm trying to tr-ain myself in saying it's a fuel
transfer facility. It's not a pipeline.
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Mr. Perry says the other questions the commission has is
with regard to the SFEIR. Hopefull y we'll get a time frame on .
that and a new dye study.
Mr. WJ net says the original dy:stUdY was flawed to some
degree and the cOmmission had requested a new study for years.
Mr. Perry adds the State as well had. requested a new
study; at this point all we need is a t.imeframe.
Mr. Yaeger says we ar-eworkingto complete the FEIR ir.l
order to satisfy the State r-egulations. We mayor may not do
@ recycled paper
Town of Nantueket
:~ .i.-".;:::,"'_:',': - "::", ,',_ <.~'-,c_,_.,:_,,::,,>_, _<'T,:'
Conservation, Commission
(508) 228--7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991
Page 32
any additional data gathering, i.e. ne~ dye study, depending
on what the finding is of the $t~te author-ity.
Mr. Willet says it has been suggested by us and by the
state that another dye study be done. You are aware of that?
Mr. Per-ry says in addition to the state, the commission
required 1t to get a new.l!fye study in thQcertificate of
compliance and be inc'ludeEi in the FEIR information. Even if
the state decides it doesn't need one we still insist on it.
t
Dr'. Dunwiddie asks is there any inten:tion of an
alternative site or is this basically what's being looked at
as along term solution.
t
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Mr. Yaeger says no other- alternative site is being
considered at this peirl't. It was felt that alternatives were
thoroughly investigated in the course'O:fthe original study.
At this time we are working with the application that's on
file. We're trying to make it perfect. So far we are dealing
with an existing facility. Until we're told that wiTt not
work we'll have to go to something else. We're dealing with a
tempor-ary pipe line C)perating under a tempor.ary certificate.
We did do the environmental studies. Some folks think they're
flawed. We will continue to work on that until it's
satisfactory. So I think it's premature at this point to sink
the ship and go out on another site.
\ ~
Dr. Dunwiddie says he only raises it as it was represented
to us as a temporary so'lut ion. As I recall it was represented
to. us as an emergency and that's why it was imperative on us
to issue permits for this.
Mr. Yaeger says he believes it was an emer-gency.
Dr. Dunwiddiesays that's my question, is it still an
emergency that requires this to be there or is it going to be
like WW2 Quonset Huts that are still sitting allover the
landscape?
Mr. Yaeger says we are continuing to. lOOk. for other ways
to handle ourfuelY'leeds. '., Having:aViation>fuel here is
absolutely essential to the, saff'ii!~yand theecooomic viabil'ity
of this whole community. Sogaso~ir:'e is anemf.i>rgency need of
0).. . our.so We have no way of getting.Jtthat is'acteptable to
.~ recycled paper
I
Town of Nantucket
~:-', _,".n,.-1 ,';- "\ _ ,~,:-,:__ :_i
Conservation Commission
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
I
Mee~ing Mlnutes for june 27,1991
Page 33
(
anyone. We continue to loo~ for other solutions to get AVgas
here by other means. On th other hand, because I feel so
insecure on having to depen on wh4tever alternative needs we
may have. I would like to hq e that fuel transfer fac;:ility
available to us for emer~en~y use. I think that is somet~in9
that you and we can work to~ardas. compromise use. I would
love to be ab Ie to, as we do. wi th. jet fvel, call up Harbor
Fuel and say bring out 2000lgallons,betause that's what we do
now. They bring it out ,in a truck. We don't have t();buy it
until it goes into our tank. If I could do the same thing
with AVgas we'd do it tomorrow~
'....\.)
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Dr. Dunwiddie says, can I ask why you can't?
~ ,
Mr. Yaeger says because there i~ a lOot ofconceth with
adding AVgas to the use of the pre!Eient Harbor Fuel f4ilcility.
There's further- COncern on the,part of the fire chief in
delivering that additiOnal fuel toa fuel transfer point
inside the boat basin.
. ~
Mr. Willet asks historically has it been unloaded, there.
Mr. Yaeger says yes. It stopped well before the pipeline
facility was used.
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Dr. Dunwiddie asks is the haz4rdiA ~ransferring AVgas any
greater than transferring the automotive fuel?
\
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Mr. Yaeger says no; but it's a lot greater than jet .f:\Jel.
Auto fuel ys. kerosene is about the same comparison as AVgas
Ys. jet fuel. They are very similar products.
Dr. Dunwiddiesays he is Only Clsking these questions so it
gets in the record that it was a temporary measure; it
continues to be; and this is admitted by these people that
they are looking for other !Solutio.ns and I just want that to
be clear.
Mr. Yaeger says sure. Again, and I tr-y to make this point
every time ItalktO$omeone about this situation. Some folks
have said thatT'mthro.witlgioutsmoke screens but this is not
my intent. The cpmmunityofNantucket has a severe problem
with tE'garditp petroleUfn~f9~f'.? The airport does in fact ,use
somewhere between 400.0()O'~'Ac;J' 600,000 ga 1. a year. There are
.Q\i... . 12,000,000 gals. of petrole~mfuels coming into the harbor
'6eI recvc/edpaper. '
'~":.i:;-~: "-: "';';'!';,';.f':;'i~'1l' .; ,~:'"t_':,t;~'"'~ "'_~':'~o': :'-!,,'';'"
Town Rf.. NaJ}~k~t
Conservation Commissipp ~
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554
Meeting Minutes for June 2 , 1991
Page 34
through the boat basin, 1/4 of a mile away fr m this facility.
So when you think about the airport and our t ansfer facility
and our impacts, please put it in perspective of 600,000 gals.
against 12,000,0009a1S. If you can give.th~ same amount of
energy to the larger problem that you give to.! our problem,
then I think we may come a whole lot closer ~o solving it.
Mr. Wasierskiaskswhat about the recordJd title problem
on the land that the tran~fersystem is on.
z'
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Mr. Yaeger says Town Counsel is working on the problem
right now With the Low's. The~e is conside~able disp&te as to
whether they hi fact have ownership interest in the land. I
think we're going to ha.ve to leave it to the attorney's to
sort it ,out. I don't tht"'k we've even begun to get c lose to a
settlement.
Mr. Willet asks for additional questions from the
commissioners or the audience.
Mr. Perry thanks Mr. Yaeger for coming.
d. Silva - No. Liberty Street - mowing
Mr. Perry says thisi~ our semi-annual discussion on Mr.
Silva's pr-operty on North Liberty Street. Shows photos taken
this spring and during mowing.
Mr. Willet says Mr.. Perry has suggested the commission
file ar-equest and Dr. Dunwiddie inspect.
Dr. Dunwiddie says he has to get permission to enter the
property.
Mr. Perry says YOl,Jcan stan(:l on the street in front of
Cranberry Constr-uction or on Liberty Street. SaYs last year
is was full of Sensitive Fern and Purple LooseStrife until he
mowed it. Would like to put this to bed. Says he will set
something up fOr a filing in August if the commission is
agreeable. We've sent letters saying don't do it.
e. Meeting Schedule
Commissioner-s agreed to reschedule. the August 22nd hearing
~~~reCYCled:;:eet on August 15 at Mr. Per-ry's request.
I
Town qf N"antucket
Conservation' Commission
~,
.-'i':
(508) 228-7230
10 South Beach Street
N antueket, Massachusetts 02554
.-
Meeting Minutes for June 27, 1991- Page 35
, .. ~<
f. Appointment to Planning Commission
MOTION: To appolBt P~ter Wilson to theP~anning
Commission.
UNANIMOUS
g. Burke - Additional Special Conditions - clerical error
Mr. Perry says there was a clerical error in the;
Addition.alSp~cial Conditions in the s~ction regardin9 th~
ridge height of the boat house. Instecild of "apartment II it!
should r~acLttle"bedroom". Has wr i tteJ"l a. letter tOt'11f" . 'Burke
explaining. the change. Also said the commission c:on~lders
this word change to be insignificant and does not affect the
issue date of the Order of Conditions.
MOTION: To accept the change as an error to be
corrected.
UNANIMOUS
5. CORRESPONDENCE
Mr. Kelliher, says he would like to make a comment that we
are handicapped inaccessible as you cClnnot use the elevator
without a key and no key is ava~lablefor our meetings.
Mr. Perry says he will look into it.
6. MINUTES: for June 13~ 1991
MOTION: To accept the minutes as drafted is made and
seconded.
UNANIMOUS
9. BILLS TO BE PAID
10. FIELD INSPECTIONS -Monday, .July 8, 1991, 4: 00 pm
Mr. Perry introduces Diane McColl, newly appointed member
of the commission.
MOTION: To adjourn toe meeting at 9:45 was m.ade and
seconded.
@ recycledpaper
UNANIMOUS