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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1991-06-13 t '"- Town o.f Nantucket . I".'. ' Conservation. Commission (508) 22S.7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 The meeting was c lIed to order at 7:02 p.lTl. in the Large Group Instruction Roo, of the Nantucket High SchooL Commissioners present were William Willet, Laura HusslieY, Peter Dunwiddie, Henry Wasierski, Daniel Kel1 ihel- and Peter Wi lson. Also present were Bruce Perry, Administrator, and LuCia Wyeth, secretary. I " MINUTES FOR JUNE 13. 1991 ~ COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS FROM PRESS AND PUBLIC ~ PUBLIC HEARINGS 1. Richarrls,,'"'"",eS E. Tristram Ave. - SE48-609 - (31-1) MOTION: To continue at the a'pplicant's request is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 2. Poor - Quidnet - SE48-63S (20-49, 50.2, 50.3; 21- 58, 119) 3. Poor - Quidnet - SE48-637 (21-122,118.1,119.1,119.2) Present are Mr. Poor and Mr. Les Smith of Daylor Consulting. Mr. Smith says it is his understanding that at the last meeting you had requested some information on crossings and culverts and Ms. Standley has provided that in the form of the supplemental information and a letter dated June 6, 1991. Reviews the proposed culverts and bridges. No. 1 is the Quidnet Milk Run and there are no proposed changes. It was there prior to Mr. Poor's ownership. He has done some modification to it. Mr. Wasierski says that's PVC. That's not work in a wetland? Mr. Smith says there are 2 PVC pipes coming through. That is work but is replacement of what was there previously. Continues crossing No.2 they are replacing a PVC pipe culver"; with an 8' wide WOod bridge which will span a 10' wetland. Propose to take down to the existing level. ) recycled paper Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission (508)228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 2 Mr. Perry says at the field inspection the commissioners thought it should be taken out and the area restored. Questiol'ls the need to provide access for every squa.re foot of his property, especially as the work already done ,intjhere has caused siltation in the pond. Also questions the advisability of replacing a culvert with a bridge. Mr. Poor says with regard to the siltation in the pond he has he responded to this board and put a double row of haybales quite awhile ago. Mr. Smith states at No.3 culvert will be.e.pl~c:ed by a bridge and relocated. The area will be restored and stabUi zed using a geotechnical fabr ic and seeding wi th rye grass. No.4 will be maintained as is with 2PVC pipes, planks and rip rap edge. No.5 by the fenced pasture will be removed and the fill s.tab i 1 i zed to the or i g i na I contours restored. No.6 they propose to move the bridge to another location and restore the wetland area. Mr. Poor notes one crossing path has already been closed. Mr. Willet says there were some areas that were dug out including a shrub swamp. Asks Mr. Poor if he is seeking any permit at this point or looking at that at all. Mr. Perry says they were identified as Pi, P2 and P3 and are altered wetlands which the commissioners remember as being shrub swamp and now is open water. Notes that these are other areas of alteration which also need permits. Mr. Poor says he was not at the previous meeting and in talking to Lisa was only aware of the culvert situation. Mr. Smith says he also was not aware of these concerns. Mr. Perry says they~re still wetlands but they have been altered. Mr. SMith asks what else. Town of Nantucket Conserva.tidn Commission (508) 228-72.30 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page _ Mr. Perry says they propose to file as a limited project which is $250 for each wetland cro~sing. Six crossings would be $1,500. Mr. Poor says he is unaware of this but if we need a check we'll get the check in the morning. Mr. Smith says Mr". Poor has a plan to present an agricultural plan to the area but he wasn't available for this evening. Mr. Poor says Don Liptack of the Soils Conservation Service was going to present the agricultural plan that he presented. previou~ly to the Nantucket Conservation Di$tric~_ Wi 11 try to schedule for the next meet ing. Mr. Perry says the notice calls for on-going agricultural practices. But the photographs show that there was not a farm there before the Wetland Protection Act. The work that he is proposing out there in the wetlands and in the buffer zone needed. to come to us before the work was done. It may turn into an agricultural project when he gets the Order of Conditions from us on this Notice. But at this point it doesn't qualify. Mr. Wasierskisays he doesn't understand why we need all the roads and culverts for agriculture. Mr. Poor says in order to hav~ reasonable access for machinery and livestock from one pasture to another. Mr. Wasierski asks what the viewing stand has to do with agriculture. Mr. Poor says it doesn't; it was put up to view the area. Ms. Creighton says she doesn't understand how trre project can come under a agricultural limited project. When you read thCl definition in' the Wetland Protection Act it calls for land that is "presently and primarily used for agricultural purposes ". DEP Po licy #90-1 . interprets c I ear I y onl y por t ions of any given parcel that are currently and directly being usee for agriculture may qualify as a limited project status. This only a very small portion has traditionally been used for .::) 'i recycled paper Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission (508) 22S.7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meet(}.ng Minutes for June 13, 1991 agricultural use so she does not understand how it can qualify as a limited project. Mr. Poor says all th'e la.nd is in agricultural use. Points out fields planted w'ith ,winter rye and all the fields are in ongoing process of rebuilding soils. Other fields are pasture :~=nh~~~ ~~~nm=~;~e:n~nr~:l~~t~~:lr:~~~:~:d~ra~:::ra~:e::i~:ve to be allowed to come back and they plan to work with old grasses that were once here and annually mow and keep out the scrub vegetation and use as a grazing and hay area. Disagree with the statement for virtually all of the property how is ir agriculture. One of the things he is working with is to bring back old grasses that were there into hay and not just take every area and till it because he thinks much of the old grasses. are still in the ground. Shortly plans to graze sheep in the area and have recently purchased a couple of beef cattle and will gradually increase the herds and bring the area back into 100'l. agriculture use. Page 4 Ms. Creighton says her question lies in the fact that many parts of the proposal are for roadways which cross wetlands, filling of wetlands, culvert installations, for mowing and brush cutting up to and in some cases digging within wetland resource areas, and they are being presented as ongoing agricultural practices but in fact they have been begun and done without a permit. Mr. Willet says this is something Mr. Poor has pretty well summed up. It can't be looked at as having been in agricultural use. This is something Mr. Poor has developed. Mr. Wasierski says he would have to agree with Ms. Creighton. The areal photographs we looked at didn't show this as pasture or farm land. There is no doubt that it was brush and trees and it appears that everything that Mr. Poor purports to be agricultural land is land that he has made agricultural land without a p.ermit. Doesn't think we should accept it as being under..agriculture. He's gone ahead and done it without any care or interest in anyone else. The culverts are allPVC which means they have been done within the. last 30 years. You c:lon,'teven know ,there were culverts there previously because there aren't photographs. ~ recycled paper Town of Nalltucket Conserv ationCommissi on 't' (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts: 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 131 1991 Mr. Kell.iher says there were some wooden cU.verts i~ Squ6~ Swamp previously. I Mr. Perry says if the commission doesn't consider it a limited project they can'request it as a regular driveway arc: road crossing. The perfor~ance standards are different and replication may be required of up to 5000 sq. fit. of alterations. PagE 5 Dr. Dunwiddie asks what is the amount of area that is being altered. Mr. Smith says that Dr. Standley documented the alterations that she estimated associated with crossings. T~e largest! ...as 1000 sq. ft. at crossing#4~ In the proposal sr,= mentionS doing wetland replication. We wanted to get some feedback from the commission but it was anticipated. ,,,,"," , '.:"Mr'"'. :W.illet says he thinks we will need to go that way. Mr: Wasierski says he thinks there was more than culverts; in area D and E there was a large sloping area whe~e the runoff was right into the wetland with absolutely no buffer-- or minimum buffer, that had been tilled, planted and he presumes will have to be fertilized. Thinks was between D a-j E. Mr. Perry says it could have been a grass swale coming down. Mr. Poor points out a sloping area that is in natural grass and ry&. Says there he wants to make the natural grasses come back that were once there. Point~ out other areas he has tilled which includes the goat pen. Mr. Perry says the plan submitted at the January meeting showed areas designated B as altered wetlands but the new pl::n they took the B's off. There are over 100,000 sq ft. of wetland that has been altered. Even if the survey is off by 10-15% there is still well over 5,000 sq. ft. The commissic-: needs to decide how the limited project is to work. The por:: can go under limited project for farm ponds. Then replicaticn is not required. If its not ali~ited project then our hanes are tied without requiring a variance from the DEP ,\- ? recycled paper . Town of Nantucket Conservation' Commission (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 6 Commissioner because of wetland alterations. Notes Area 8 is now included in A. Dr. Ounwiddiesays he thinks the question for each of the areas should be what have they.done to them now to so designate them as undisturbed wetlands. Would we want them to do anything differently than what they have done. If we want them to do something else to restore them, so designate. Otherwise what I understand from this plan is they are just going to let them grow back. Mr. Willet says he would just as soon let them grow back. Dr. Dunwiddie says there were a couple of areas that we thought were wetlands that have not been designated. Asks if they have been added. Mr. Smith says we are waiting for them to grow back. There is no water there. He believes something could be worked out as a limited restriction for those areas. Mr. Wasierski questions two access points to the same place. Mr. Poor explains he has to go off the property at one spot. Also wilL need to bring tractors as well as animals by the most direct route. He intends to put the property in conservation and run a farm for a combination of things, one being rare breeds of farm animals and the other is to use it as awild life habitat and.a resource to work with children on Nantucket toeduca~e theffi on animal and wildlife usage. Needs some access to get around. In spite of the past difference with the Commission, the mo.tivation he has for this property once he gets this into conservation, will be compatible with the goals of this board. H~ is obviously going to keep the ability to live on the property himself. Is in the middle of talking with two organizations at the present- time. The goal is by early fall to have all the land under conservation and have it so it is not land that gets subdivided. He knows quite a bit about the land and appreciate the value of the combination of habitat& that are here and in just what has happ~n~d there has been a much greater diversity in the wildlife activity in the area. .~ recvcled paper Town of NgIltucket Conservation Commission (508) 228-723(1 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page ...., Mr. Willet asks if he intends to get a conservation restriction for the property. Mr. Poor says he is puttihg this land 100% into conservation. Dr. Dunwiddie asks if he can be more specific in terms of a conservation organization owning it or placing a restrictior oni t . Mr. Poor says this probably would be owned by a conservation orga~ization. We are presently talking about doing a joint venture with a national organization and with ano ther that wor ks thro.ughout Massachl,1setts to do a comb i na t ion of preservi hg the wildl ife hab i tat and to run a farm for rare breeds of farm animals wi th beef cattle and witr, sheep with the intent to show mainly-in the sheep area that graz)D9 ~heep could be successfully brought to Nantucket and as a source of agriculture use, especially on conservation land, would make good sense. It is going to be some sort of a joint venture between two conservation organizations. At the present time we don't know if one is going to own it and one is going to hold a restriction onit or it just may be in joint ownership. Those are details that it is too early to tell. It never has been any intention of mine to be a pi~ce of land, even though I am in the development business, to be developed. I consider this land a very important parcel of land in this unique habitat with a mixture of uplands and wetlands and forests that is a beautiful spot. I'm not looking to destroy it, I'm looking to enhance it. I'm well awal-e I 'm off on the wrong foot with this board. Mr. Smith says he thinks what Dr. Standley is trying to do in this proposal is to eliminate as much as possible the wetland crossings by bridging them in places that seem reasonable. Mr. Poor responds to question on a ditch. Believes it previously connected the two wetlands~ It was apparently dug prior to mosquito ditches. He believes in ancient times flooding of the swamps was encouraged. Says the ditch has never flowed in the nine years since he has been there in either direction, to PolpisHarbor or to Squam Pond. The water never backs up that far. Continues to discuss various :". swamps, ditches, direction of water flow and elevations. ::.; recycled paper Town of. Nantucket Conservation Commission ~ (508) 22~- ':"2:30 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for Jun~13' 1991 Mr. Perry ask~ what is the reasoning be ind the two crossing relocations, especially in culvert where you already have a path going through the we:t;larid now you're to alter another section to add a bridge. Page _ goi-; Mr. Smith says he thinks the idea is th~t a bridge coule easily be placed here and the culvert couldtbe restored so there would be no net loss of wetland. Mr. Poor says he doesn't care, he would do whatever this board wants to do. Leave that one and if you want to replicate the area somewhere and increase the wetland it is fine with him. He's not interested in eliminating wetlands -'Q thinks wetlands in some cases need to be enhanced. Obviousl. in the future, I need to make the proper application to do i:. Mr. Willet suggests they look at the crossings at field inspection. Mr. Poor says he doesn't have a problem with what we do _ just needs reasonable access for long term he plans to have - 100 animals in this area to move back and forth between pastures. If he has a carr idor it wi 11 be easier to keep thE" out of the wetlands. Mr. Willet asks for questions from the audience. Mr. Ed O'Lear, an abutter, identifies an area and asks _ it will all be a part of the conservation area. Mr. Poor says that is not all his property and also poir::; out there are no wetlands in that area. Ms. Karen Pelr ine asks how much o,f the land in quest ion ::; actually, clearly owned by you. Mr. Poor says he has title on all the property. Some of the land he has fee simple title, other-lands he has sheep common ownership. There is abOut 150 acres, 40 acres of whi:~ h.has total title and th~ balance he hassheep's common tit:e (A).. ...Wh.iCh is a grazing title. In the old days they divided up :~1CI recycled paper Town of Nantucket Conservatioh Commission ~ (508) 228-7230 . 10 South Beach Street .N antucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 9 ( land for grazing purposes that way but your ownership would be the same as if five of us owned a property together dnd were tenants by the entirety but; each person ha$ the right to use the total property. In some cases he knows the people who have partial interest and heco,mes into contact with some of them several times a year. Some are trying to sell their interest far a substantial price. Doe is well aware of his activities. One he talks to all the time. Mr. Willet asks Mr. poor if he will provide an attorney's statement of his title or interest to this property. Mr. Poor says he will get a statement. He will have the title examiner who, has done his title doa summary and give it to his attorney. Mr. Perry says we will need this to do an order of conditions-as We can't issue,:one without the owner's permissio(lobec:ause it goesolrLthetitle. If he owns a portion of the share he owns a portion interest; we don't need to see clear title. Mr. Poor says in most cases the land was ()wned by people who abandoned their title to join the gold rush. As the land is laced with wetlands and private roads were never constructed a lot af it has difficult acces~. They did extensive title searc:h before buying it from the Coffins. At the time they were relatively eLderly and knew that they had other grazing title and we purchased it from them at that time. Ms. Pelrine asks if you dan't have to, wait 20 years. Ml-. Poor says that is if you take land by adverse passession. He already has sheep common ownership in the property. It is arela~ively complex title. Mrs. Hussey asks what is our regulations about pasturing wetlands. Mr. Perry says locally you need anSCSplan to protect erosion contral and siltatiooin the wetland. Dr. Dunwiddie says what do you do to prevent animals from grazing in the wetlands. " recycled paper Town of Nqritucket Conservation Commission (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street N rntucket, Massachusetts 02554 ( Meeting Minutes..f9rJune 13, 1991 Page 10 Mr. Poor says an Australian ~lectric fente. Someone asks if it will be open to the public. Mr. Poor says yes and no. It will have limited public access. He would like to open it to Nal'ltucket children for educational experience in a farming environment. Also will be working with organiza~ions like the University of Massachusetts for studies of grasslands. Mr. Perry asks ifth~re is a problem where you don't have a clear title. Mr. Poor says not if you do an APR with the state. Dr. Dunwiddie asks how can we-tell if you 'are serious about linking this with a conservati-.on restriction. A commissioner says what if you change your mind and decide not to do this project. Thinks it is somewhat suspect. It has been said that you were quoted as saying that you were brushcutting to develop. Mr. Poor says he has never considered developing the land.' Intends to put it in conservation. If I don't farm, it will lie fallow. It will have a restriction .that once it goes into conservation it can't come out. If you wal'lt to hold up the approval until it gets into conservation, it is fine with me. Mr. Poor continues the proposal consists of multiple numbers of parcels and what, he is looking for from a parcel thing, he just~ants to protect his family so they can have a home up there and one other person that he can't mention. Otherwise, he doesn't know how many parcels are up there but if there are 8 to 10 parcels and on Nantucket you can put 2 houses per parcel; I'm not interested in putting 20 homes there but I would certainly want to be able to put if I had whatever number of people working on the farm or there were some research going on some rights to that, but I don't need two houses for myself, one's enough. I live in the barn. This thing on that agriculture is for me I'm in my early fifties and I'm getting into an.area .of knowledge that I know nothil"lg about but I'm consuming books and intend to go back .~ "and go to school and it's like a whole new life. SO 'JCI recycled paper Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission (508) 2,28';7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13. 1991 Page 11 hopefu 11 y I' 11 be remembered as the farmer. And I hope tha t we can resolve our issues hee. . Ms. Creighton says sf)e wpuldliketo submit a letter, the points of which we have alre!ady talked about. Mr. Willet asks for a motion to continue for a site visit. I Mr. Poor asks if you need any more information. Mr. Smith says they have all the information they just want to take a look at those crossings. Mr. Poor says he doesn't care where we move the crossings he just thinks he need~them to access what he wants. To eliminate certain ones you Just can't get there from here and a prohibitive distance to get around is going to make it extremely difficult. Mr. Creighton asks if you are going to request the pond information be included as part of the notice. Mr. Willet says yes. Mr. Poor says any time anyone wants to come up and take a look, this includes anyone in the audience, just please give me a call before you come and you're welcome. MOTION: To continue the hearing for a field inspection and additional information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 4. Gamble - 90 Pocomo Road -SE48-654 (15-43) Present is Richard Gamble, Travis Price and Rob Bigelow, Architects. Mr. Price says in the previous request two sets of stairs were approved. In response to the concerns at the last hearing they have removed the second stairway and eliminated the ?mall road which has always been there. They have set the posts back from the edge and have come down by code to two ','\A landings where they have added a couple of seats to provide :iY recycled paper I Town of ~antucket Conservation .Commis~ion (508) 22S.7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minut~s for June 13, 1991 Page 12 rest points along the way. Says the width is 4'; 3 1/2 to 4' is standard in the area. The footings are three to four feet. Thi$ is the actual slope in terms of rise. Mr. P~rry said he had a question if the stairs weren't too far out onto the beach to obstru~tpassage but at high tide there will be 15' from the stairs to the water. Mr. Price says a storm tide might be higher but there is enough room to get a jeep by. Mr. Wasierski asks if there has been erosion on this bank in the last few years. Mr. Price says no, they have been watching ital'ld they think it is the same; it is so heavily brushed along tha~ edge except for one spot and going down the bank some areas are vegetated and some are not. Mr. Wilson says the las~ section could be under water in the winter and suggests that section be aluminum. Mr. Perry says he thinks the HDC would not allow but he could put it in the order. Mr. Wasierski asks if there is stairway has to be built straight. jogs. Thinks the one down the way the bank. anything that says a Suggests landings and is horrendously high off Mr. Price that would rEquire more posts and might be more damaging to the slope. Dr. Dunwiddie asks if itis possible to make a straight shot stairway all the way down. Mr. Bigelow says by code you have to have a landing. Mr. Wasierski says he'd like to endorse the fact they are removing one stair and the walk; thinks that is better than a minor modification. Mr. Perry asks about the swimming pool. I@ recycled paper .,....""'~~~ Town of. Nantucket Conservation Commission (508)228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 13 Mr. Price says there is no change. be designed like a little lagoon. Is 55' back, 'and will Mr. Perry says we talked about a fence around it and he was going to suggest 35' undisturbed between the pool and the bank to allow for the fence. Mr. Wright says he doesn't think they will want more than 20' around the pool. MOTION: To close the hearing and draft an order was made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 5. Nantucket Bank - 100 Pleasant St. ~ SE48-652 - (55-145) Present for the applicant is Robert Emack of Nantucket Surveyors. Mr. Emack presents the revised'plan showing detail on the catch basins. Propose installing an oil absorbent boom. Is like a donut and will be suspended just above the invert elevation. The decided on this rather than a pillow as they thought a pillow might clog the opening. Mr. Wasierski asks so that would just float on the water level at all times. Mr. Emack says no, it will be suspended just above the invert elevation so that it will work if the water rises. Dr. punwiddie asks if the water goes all the way up the ~il won't be separated as they are going to be held down. Mr. Emack says that's right. Mr. Perry says in a storm the water and oil will be mixed up, it's not going to be all floating on the surface. Mr. Emack says there is no advantage to having it float, it will absorb the oil whether it is floating or down below. Mr. Willet aska for questions on the order as drafted. ~9 recycled paper I Town ofNClntucltet ~Conserv a ti onfCommission . . (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, M assachusetr 02554 MJ.ION: ma~e and , Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 14 To close the hearing and draft the order was seconded. UNANIMOUS 6. Lane -' West Chester St. - SE48-653 - (41-478) MdT ION: To continue the hearing at the request of the applicant is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS * 7. Craig - 1 Kimball Avenue - (30-33) Present for the applicant is Thomas Pochman. Mr. Pochman says. the dune above the beach has eroded and broken off. Says they considered replacing with aluminum but feels that the HDC would prefer wood be used as it is close to town and visible. Mr. Wasierski says this is going to be a perpetual problem. Mr. Willet reads the inspection report. Mr. Pochman says they have tried to keep it as simple and open as possible with the idea it might have to be moved. The existing longer portion of stairs has a lot more detail. Mr. Wasierski suggests a platform on top of the bank and removable stairs extending which could be pulled up in the winter. Dr. Dunwiddie questions building something so substantial and portable. Asks what does the HDC feel about stairs littering the beach every winter after the first big storm. Mr. Pochman says something simple is fine; they are concerned about access and it. needs to be safe for the grandchildren. Mr. Perry.says sometbingc:ould be used that you could bolt the stairs to and adjust to whatever the bank was and drop ~. down to the beach and it cou I d be pu 11 ed up and down. ~ recycled paper ;. Town of Nantucket ConservatiOn eomrnission ~... ?' (508)228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting M~- utes for June 13, 1991 Mr,. Wasiersk i says thcflt ,at he was th ink i ng of, someth i ng like what they use at the yac t club to get from a pier to a float and then if there is a ,'storm you can pull it up. Page 15 I !... Mr. Pochman says wouldn', t.tnCit /;lave more damage to the dUl'le? The Craigs are Wi.I...lin~.......,....to.....,.....d...O what they have to do it properly. If there is &$iglpJe.r, Way that would be fine. {;:' Commission agrees it. should be a little lighter and a little more movable. MOTION: To continue for a file. number and field inspection is m4de andseconded~ . . UNANIMOUS c. REGULAR MEETING 1. REQUEST FOR DETERMINATION * a. Johnson - Almanac Pond Road - (25-14) Present for the applicant is John Newman, architect. Mr. Willet reads the inspection report. The recommendation is fora negativedetermi~ation. Mr. NewMan says the reason for this request is a previous notice of non-significance is about to expire. MOTION: To issue a negative determination as the proposed work is in ~he buffer zone but will not alter is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS * b. Wasierski - 15 Sesachacha Road - (21-21) Mr. Wasierski and Mr. Kelliher abstain from the discussion and the vote. Mr~ Willet reads the inspection report. Recommends the work be done by hand as much as possible. :~ recycled paper Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission (508) 228':7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 16 Mr. Perry says the photos show the area of the proposed work. Mrs. ~asierski says all that she intends to 'do is fix the damage done by the hi~h water ~f the pond. MOTION: To issue a negative determination as the proposed work is in the resource area but will not alter. UNANIMOUS * c. Krimme,l - 24 Rhode Island Avenue - (60.3.1-162.) Present are Mr. and Mrs. Cady, abutters. The applicant is not present. Mr. Perry says the request is to extend the' first floor deck to the rear and add a small second floor deck. ~r. Willet asks Mr. Perry what is his recommendation. Mr. Perry says the work proposed is 100' away from the dunes and i~ above the 100 year flood line but is almost at the middle of Smith's Point and between two barrier beaches. Is out of our jurisdiction and they are not expanding the house footprint. ':'J MOTION: To issue a negative determination and the project is in the buffer zone but will not alter is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 2. ORDER OF CONDITIONS a. Burke - 37 Gardner Road - SE48-645 - (43-85) Mr. Willet abstains from the discussion and the vote. Present are Mr. Burke, Mr. Krieger, Mr. Shugrue, Mr. LaFrance. Present for the abutters are Les Smith of Oaylor ~ . Consulting and a representative for Attorney Arthur Reade. 'JCI recycled paper . 'r. ;;:"":"~;;''''~';;'.':' Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission . (508) 22$-7~O 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 17 Mr. Kr ieger 'thanks th.e commission for their thoughtful attention Over the last three months. Believes the draft order is fair minded. Would like to discuss three points in the draft additional special conditions that will have a profound impact on the p~oject. #4 regarding the location of a siltation fence being no more than fifteen feet on tWD sides and #14 regarding an undisturbed buffer between the siltation fence and the wetland boundary. The combined limits of the area of work give only 15' at the northeast and northwest sides. Says the plans show a dott~d lihe where we Jhad asked the siltation fence be 25' . back. Fifteen feet is a little tight to ~ork as they need to bring in fil.l for the slab on grade. This limitation would restrict the contours and they would like a little more room to allow the grade to b~more natural and tie into the existing contours. Mr. Perry says there i s_"some word ing in the standard order that allows you to disturb an area temporarily during construction then the undisturb~d buffer needs grow back. Mr. Krieger says he needs more room on the gable end and would like the wording changed to allow them to disturb more than 15'. Asks what the intention is for the restrictions and wonders if it may not be as restrictive as they had thought. Mr. Wasierski says to protect the undisturbed buffer along the top of the bank. Commission discuss map points relative to the plans. Feel they misunderstood language in the draft. Mr. Perry notes the filling contours that we got at the last meeting look like they are pretty much going down to grade on the deck side. Says he understood from talking with Mr. Krieger the intent was to draw a line 15' in front of the deck and 15' in front of the boathouse and connect the dots. On the gable end again there was 15'. Agrees to change the wording on the gable end so that they can disturb more than 15' in and then replant with native species at the end of the project. \~ recycled paper Town of3'Nantucket ~ -Conservation CommiSsion (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massacqusetts 02554 ! I' Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 18 M. r. Kr ie. ger as.ks wha. t happens if the.house doe., s.n 't come out so ar. Does the buffer move as the house moves if the footpri t were to shrink? . . , Dr. Dunwiddie says we could compromise in that case. Mr.1 Wasierski. agrees. \ Mr. Krieger s~ys if the house moves back the line stays-- it is fi~ed to the plan not fixed to the house. Commissioners agree, if the hous~ moves back the line stays. The established limit of work is fixed to the plan and not to the house. Mr. Krieger says the next one he wants to discuss is #19. He probably should start with the question that's been asked regarding the existing grade. Our interpretation was confirmed in a phone call to Mr. Perry that existing grade is measured from the high point of the building footprint. Asks if that is a correct assumption. Mr. Perry says that was his understanding and cites the two file on Polpis Road as an example~ Mr. Wasierski says he thought it was from the lowest end of the lot to the ~idge height and cites as an example the Briskman file. Mr. Kelliher says he thinks existing grade is from the high point of the lot. Dr. Dunwiddie says isn't it going to make it difficult to measure in terms of compliance when existing grade no longer exists'? If the contours don't follow it any more what do you me~sure from? Mr. Perry says the high point is 10.5 Mr. Krieger s~ys they have spot elevations and it is 10.75. What has been written is a27 foot height restriction from the ridge wh ich if you assume 10' 9" from the base elevation will put the ridge height at 37' 9" which is l' lower than the current ridge at the low portion and 3' lower ~. '. than the high portion. That will involve a significant amount '6<Y recycled paper Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission (508) 228-7280 10 Soutn B~h Street N antuck;et, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes fIr June 13, 1991 Page 19 of redesign on their part and they a e also concerned about HDC. They don't want to see an unbr ken ridge line. Would l~ke tbe comm~~ion to cons~deF abest~lisbment of ~ higher ridge elevation. A 3' reduc::tion.int-idge height will make it very difficult to get a second floorl. The only recourse is to lower the floor but the first floor 'is pretty much tied into the septic system. The height rest~iction as he understands it is related to the wetland scenic iview and as he pointed out previously the house next to it has a ridge height of about 45'. Their proposed ridge height is 39'6" and no more than' 40 '9". Mr. Wilson asks what is the first floor ceiling. Mr. Krieger says S'6". Mr. Wasierski says minimum ceiling height on the building code is 7'3". Dr. Dunwiddie says he doesn't see this is addressing any sort of compromise with us at all. You are asking for a 30 foot ridge line and that is the maximum you can get. Mr. Krieger says they are figuring all this from first floor elevations that cannot move too much due to the septic elevations. Dr. Ounwiddie says when weta1k about scenic view we consider it from existing grade how far you are going above the ground. And that's more than 30' . When we talk about compromise to lessen the impact on scenic view we're talking about a lot less than 30'. Mr. Krieger says he has been talking with the HOC and they consider it from first floor elevations so that's what he had in his mind as a starting point. Mr. Wasierski says for some reason I have this terrible feeling from the ~ater that this thing is going to look horrendous. It will be looming over the top of the bank. We're going to sit back and say why did we ever allow somethil'lg like that. Mr. Krieger asks if there is any possibility for some '~. additional height. .'1 recycled paper I Town of Nantucket Conservation! 'Commission (508) 22S.7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 20 Mr. Perry says we're allowing the ridge height that you've proposed for this house. What we're changing is the first floor elevation. So you canbl.lild the house you have designed, it just needs to be3' lower. Mr. Krieger says that requires a pump for the septic system. Mr. Wasierski says that wouldn't be the first one on Nantucket. Suggests a generator and to hook the pump to the generator. Mr. Krieger says he doesn't want to belabor the point but asks for reconsideration of the height. restrfctions to an average ridge height of 38'6" instead of 37,'9". Says nothing will exceed 40'3". Mr. Burke asks what is the roof length. Mr. Krieger says about 18' for th~-~aller section. Mr. Perry says the Karp house is 45' but the grade change goes .from 10'5" to 17'. When you talk 13'3" up to 17 you are going to be 5' lower than the Ka~p house. The grade differel'lce is only 4'; so you are actually standing up above the grade at the same elevation. Is not going to be "snuggled down" near the ground, it's going to be up as high in appearance above grade. Mr. Krieger says as you step down from the Karp house you will get a lower ridge line and it keeps sloping down. Mr. Perry says when we limit ridge heights we usually allow 24' to 25' and by allowing 27' we are allowing a concession to the design of the house. Dr. Dunwiddie says that is his poin~ exactly. He doesn't see there is any compromise being offered here at all. Mr. Wasierski and Mr. Kelliher agree commenting that he though~that they were compromising at 27 feet. -~ recycled paper _~' ""':':"'"f:c-:~.,,;,' ~- ';;:;,r:il'1t~';''i_'<:- -,tl':-:~-~ Town of NQl1tuck.et Conservation Commission (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts.02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page E: Mr. Krieger says they will withdraw the request; leave G: written which he understands is 37'9" above sea level for a maximum ridge height. Mr. Was~erski says he thinks we should clarify #4 ~ith a vote. They asked on the northeast end that 15' be establishej and that if the house is made smaller that the line stays on the plan a~ shown and that a straight line be drawn 15' from corner to corner for the locat~on of the siltation fence whi::'"'\ then becomes the vegetated buffer. Mr. Wasierski continues, #19 we are going to accept 37'9 as the ridge height above sea level. Mr. Krieger continues with #21 which limits the project septic to 3 bedrooms. Says they have asked for 4 bedrooms a~j have designed a system that sufficiently protects the interests of the by-laws to allow increased capacity. Under the state there is a presumption that the system is in compliance with Title V and the local by-laws and would not have an adverse affect on the marsh. Mr. Wasierski asks what was permitted ini,iihe superseding order. Mr. Perry states that a Superseding Order was never issued as the applicant withdrew the appeal request. Mr. Krieger says there was an approved septic plan for a five bedroom house. They have up-graded the system and ask the restriction be reconsidered. Mr. Pel-ry adds but there i sonl y a three bedroom house that Conservation Commission previously approved. Continues that the previous discussion mentions the effect on fisheries and shellfish, nitrate problems in the marsh area, and the groundwater studies resulted in the local board of 'health regulations. Says he polled the commission and they agreed :0 limit it to 3 bedrooms in the draft order. Mr. Wasierski says he's in favor of keeping it three bedrooms. Mr. Kelliher says at the last meeting we discussed four . bedrooms--three in the house and one in the garage and the 9 recycled paper Town of Nantucket ~. . 1- .',-- . ',''ii:--' Conservatfbri:.f/Commission (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 :r:~~m has a five b::::::gc:::~l::.fo:a::n:tl:: ::9:hE ::::t:: Dr. Dunwiddie says he do.esn" t see anything in the notes to indicate anything other than that's what was filed for, not what we recommend. Mr. Kelliher says we didn'tl shoot it down either. Mr. Shugrue says the system is outside your jurisdiction. Mr. Burke says as I understood it a five bedroom system was approved under the old laws. Then because of concerns of the commission, to make absolutely sure we were protecting the wetlands we spent the time and money to design a new system as a compromise to make sure we could comply with your latest regs. AsI understand the Board of Health ok'd for five. We compromised and said we would have 4 bedrooms. To my knowledge no one put forth any information that this would hurt the marsh. Dr. Dunwiddie says it's a situation we have been dealing with for years on the commission of incremental contamination of ecosystems. You can't say that one more bedroom is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back and all of a sudden Nantucket Harbor is going to be polluted. No one is ever going to say that. But you get 100 applicants like you all adding one more bedroom to their house and all of a sudden you have a significant input. But you're just one person so what are we supposed to do? We've-been sitting here for years watching one applicant after another come in with bigger and bigger houses. Ten years ago the average house size was probably half what it is now. Mr.. Burke says we have spent a lot more money to have a mopnded system. We didn't ask for a five bedroom system. We've asked for a four. Mr. Perry says even if the old approved design is for five bedrooms the Cons~rvation Commission order only allowed three bedrooms in the house if it was ever built no matter what the design size was. @ recYf;led paper Townpf;i Nl!IDNek~t Conse rva Hon Commission ~ (5Ot0228-7280 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 au t $ 7~~ ~:~r~:r ::&;:;; :;::;::;~;:::;;d :;~~;~~.~Ta::h: ;a:: bedroom hous....right close with;n \i'oUrjUr'iSdiCti~~. 23 Mr. Wilson marvels we allowed 12 bedroom houses? Mr. Wasierskisays I think we should st'ick wi~h what was the original condition of the lot size whith is 600 t 700 sq. ft. less than what is proposed. blallowingit to be larger than what was originally permitted in the building envelope, what we are giving size-wise maybe wecouid be given back bedroom-wise. Or maybe we should t:ondition it to the original size. Mr. Krieger asks if ther-e is any support On the commission for four bedrooms. Dr. Dunwiddle says youbetterpbll the /commission on this one. Mr. Wilson says we've all(;)wed the size of the house and the boathouse. Weare just n(;)t a.lldwing a bedroom. in the boathouse. If they make the house smaller I'd be more willing to allow the four bedrooms. Mr. Kelliher says he goes along with three plus one. Mrs. Hussey says keep the three bedrooms. Asks what are the concerns. Mr. Perry says the concerns are about pollution, shellfish and the saltmarsh. Mrs. Hussey says those are my concerns. Are we allowed to be concerned outside of 100 I . Mr. Perry says the local by-law is more strict than the state act. Mr. Burke says he thinks everyone here is concerned. Whether the contern is shellfish or'saltmarsh. And that is why after the first meeting we redesigned the system and asked for four bedrooms. '~ recycled paper Town of 'N~tuckfjt Conservation . Commission (508) 228-723i{ 10 South Beach Street N antueket, Massachusetts 02~54 , . Meeting Minutes for JU['e 13, 1991 MOTION: To issue the certificate is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS ! Page 30 h. Soderberg - FSt. - SE4S-320 - (60.1.2-3) MOTION: To continue foradditio~al information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS i. Pfaff - Alabama Ave. - SE48-463 - (60-130> MOTION: To continue for additional information is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS j. Nash - 1 Eastol'l St. - SE48-269 - (42.1..4-6) Mr. Willet reads the inspection report. Mr. Perry says there was some discussion on where to go from, here. He talked with Mr. Bachman and it seeflls they have lost 2 vertical feet of sand right at the base of the bulkhead in the last 2 months. Mr. Emack says we met with them today and spoke about ways to support the bulkhead. A couple of months ago we talked about replenishment and they anticipate 90in9 that. They are having someone t.ake a look at it rather than discuss it tonight and perhaps come back with something concrete as soon as possible. MOTION: To issue the Certificate is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 4. EXTENSION a. Sherburne - Bulkhead Repair - (42.2.4-1) - SE48-435 .~ reCYcJedpaper j:,':;;~"~~:~~"~;, ~~, .'/.i."':~- Town of Nantucket Conservation Cornmission 't' (508) 22~7280 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 31 rep 1 acement. The, , Mr. Perry says this is for the bulkhead are going to finish it this winter. MOTION: To approve the extension is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS b. Brooks - 63 W. Chester St. - SE48-502 - (41-222) Mr. Perry says this was voted on at the last meeting but the certificate was not signed. 5. PLANNING BOARD REFERRALS 6. OTHER BUSINESS a. Pageau - Otokomi Rd. - NAN-007 -(56-197) - minor mod Present for the applicant is Leo Asadoorian. Mr. Perry says last fall we asked them to come back when they got building envelopes and request as a minor modification. Says there are two rectangles in which they are going to squeeze a house and a garage. Mr. Asadooriansays special condition #17 they are required to come back for all the footprints and any decks, landscaping, driveway. Mr. Perry says the construction is outside of 50'. MOTION: To accept as a minor modification is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS b. Nash - 1 Easton St. - SE48-269 - (42.1.4-6) discussion Mr. Perry says there was some discussion on where to go from here. He talked with Mr. Bachman and it seems they have lost 2 vertical feet of sand right at the base of the bulkhead in the last 2 months. "~ recycled paper . Town ,of Nantucket Conservation Commission (508) 228-723(1 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 Meeting Minutes for June 13, 1991 Page 32 Mr. Emack says we met with them today and spoke about ways to support the bulkhead. A couple of months ago we talked about replenishment andthjy'a~ticipate doing -that. They are having someone take a 1001< at it rather than discuss it tonight and perhaps come back with something concrete as soon as possible. c. Conservation Restricti~n policy discussion Mr. Perry says a coup~e of meetings ago there was a draft policy statement citing wetland protection goals and interests that the Land Council had requested we review. Ms. Creighton says they are attempting to develop a policy to ease going through the process with the selectmen. Mr. Willet says he thinks we should endorse this. MOTION: To accept the policy as drafted is made and seconded. UNANIMOUS d. Get mileage vouchers in by end of fiscal year 7. CORRESPONDENCE 8. MINUTES: for May 30, 1991 MOTION: To accept the minutes was made and seconded. UNANIMOUS 9. BILLS TO BE PAID 10. FIELD INSPECTIONS - Monday, 3une 24, 1991, 4:00 pm D.EXECUTIVE SESSION At 10:30 the commissioners were polled and voted to go into executive session and not to reconvene in open session. 1. Litigation ~ recycled paper .'" Town of Nantucket Conservation Commission (508) 228-7230 10 South Beach Street Nantucket, Massachusetts 02554 2. Meeting M!'nutes for June 13, 1991 Approval of Minutes May , 1991 MOTION: To adjourn he meeting at 10:35 was made and seconded. Page 33 UNANIMOUS ft<- rj 1(1(1r J~ 4jJ47 ~ ./ I '~ recycled paper